Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#491

Post by a-walker » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #373

I've built a team from trained-up junior devs, and it was great, I would recommend this route for anyone building a team. BUT... you have to have people who can train and teach as well as code. There are personality traits that don't align with this. The typical "aspy Dave" stereotype of a rockstar programmer is not good at this. So you have to align the entire team from day 1 as being a training environment as well…

Did you do this in a product or agency environment? What was the typical talent bar for a green new hire and what was your financial arrangement with them?

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#492

Post by geekbird » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #272

patmcc wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>That's a 200%+ increase that is very difficult for even modern businesses to take sitting down. Because businesses would rather have a person leave and then hire someone at 1.5x or 2x their salary than just pay the first person 2x what they were making the year before. This happens all the time . Employers want to have 2x people at 1x prices, and that doesn't work for long.

One place I worked "wasn't able" to give me a pay rise, yet they were able to hire 1 and a half people to replace me (one full time and one on split between projects).

I had the same thing happen: They co7uldn't take me from contract to permanent at the pay rate I was getting contract, but they could hire TWO younger men to replace me (both of whom left after six months of 10 hour days, 6 days a week at lowball salary.)

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#493

Post by WiseExperience » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:39 PM UTC

Some form of this debate has been going on since the mid-1970's when I was in your situation. The answer I got the most often back then when I asked a similar question was that company ABC does not want to train Company XYZ's future employees. From what you describe, very little has changed in terms of the mind-set of prospective employers vs. employees that are a "good fit" but not necessarily a "perfect fit".

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#494

Post by speedplane » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 10:52 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #338

enraged_camel wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but if you do construction or manual labor of any kind as a living (i.e. for years, decades), it leaves your body frail and broken. With programming, you only have to watch for relatively minor things like carpal tunnel and bad posture.

I'm reasonably certain that plenty of people do manual labor for a living who don't end up "frail and broken", and that decades spent in a sedentary position can have detrimental health effects beyond mere bad posture. And carpal tunnel is no joke. Either can be taken to an unhealthy extreme, but on balance the human body benefits more from physical exertion than the lack of it.

My concern with manual labor jobs is not the effect on my body, it's the effect on the mind. Like I said in the previous comment, after a hard day of manual labor, sure I was tired, but I was mostly bored out of my mind. Moving some heavy object X from position A to position B gets less romantic when you've done it 50 times.

Sitting in an office desk for 30 years can't be good for you either, but if it's in a position to keep my brain active (even if my muscles aren't), I'd take that job a thousand times before going back to pure labor.

In fact, one of the most memorable parts of those summer jobs was creating a shoulder rest for the 25 lbs bottles to sit on, out of discarded plastic. I honestly can't remember whether it worked at all or not, but I definitely remember being far more interested designing and cutting this piece of plastic than carrying bottles of water.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#495

Post by jeremyarussell » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 12:06 AM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #301

ndnxhs wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ride a bike to work. If you live too close then take a more interesting path to work that gives you some proper fitness every day.

I already do. It's not about the fitness.

I think I get what you mean. I do landscaping and misc. yard work on the weekends to get my "working outside" fix. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but for me I need to really break a sweat out in the sun once and a while to keep my happiness levels up.