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Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#491

Post by ada1981 »

I spend a good deal of my time working with high powered men on how to actually develop intimacy with themselves and with women as well as training companies and organizations on how to build cultures of intimacy, vulnerability and strength.

For many high performing men, their shadow side is that they view themselves and thus, their world as objects.

That your culture manifested this sort of dynamic to me is a weak signal about deeper issues in your organization, leadership and overall company. From my vantage point, the least of your problems is how to protect yourself from the fallout of this situation legally and you may want to take a deeper look at the root cause of this, lest you begin a game of cultural wack-a-mole, firing away manifestations of a deeper cultural issue.

I don't mean this to come off as blaming you, but rather, there is an element of you in all of this that you do have control over -- some of that will be in how you handle the situation and the other will be in your understanding of the dynamics inside of you that led to you co-creating it.

Happy to gift you a culture session if you want to discuss it more deeply.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#492

Post by smilesnd »

Most humans are dicks. That is my general rule when dealing with these things because it is true. But, should you do anything about it? From what I can tell this didn't happen during business hours or at work. This was a conversation between 2 adults where one was a dick. I would thank her for the heads up and do what she wishes and stay out of it. If it does become a problem or shows up at work then document the hell out of it and lawyer up.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#493

Post by tomc1985 »

anjc wrote: post #220
nobody_nowhere wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picture yourself, as an owner of the company, explaining to a jury how "Mother I'd Like to Fuck" doesn't constitute a hostile environment in the course of a sexual harassment lawsuit. Maybe with a jury that includes someone your grandmother's age. And maybe not as a result of this particular conversation, but the next time it happens.

I'm not saying the owner should not be concerned at all. He should clearly log this incident and follow up at a later date to ensure that similar incidents haven't continued. If the female worker is satisfied that they haven't continued then there's no way that a court would construe this as sexual harassment, ever. Also, "milf" is in standard printed dictionaries at this stage. I haven't ever used the term, but I un…

Are there any other acronyms around sexual intent that are considered benign intact but offensive when mentally unpacked? I can't think of any. Because when you unpack it the original meaning becomes clear.

It's hard to imagine someone dignified not taking offense to being called a MILF, because regardless of what was intended you just told the person they are a mom you'd like to fuck, to their face.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#494

Post by balls187 »

tptacek wrote: post #490
balls187 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers in the US generally have no [legal] obligation whatsoever to provide "reasonable time to take corrective measures". They do, however, want to CYA. > In fact, "wrongful termination" doesn't mean "terminated unfairly". It means "terminated unlawfully". And "unlawfully" is determined by the US Courts. > If you believe this, it's not safe to fire anyone --- all of them could "file costly wrongful termination…

Can you point to the law you're concerned might be violated in this scenario?

No law that I can think of.

Maybe some sort of edge gender discrimination, or perhaps in case this guy is some nymphomaniac and has a documented mental condition. Speculating wildly.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#495

Post by econner »

zepto wrote: post #457
econner wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you're getting the "think they are not sexist" from. Everyone has unconscious biases (men and women). Some are more aware of them than others. This problem is not sexist in and of itself. It would be equally inappropriate for a woman to put a man in this position in the work place or for a man to put another man in this position, or woman to put another woman etc.

Have you studied sexism at all? It's significantly more complicated than your simple explanation implies, which is mostly my point. Hint: I don't disagree with that it would be equally inappropriate for a woman to put a man in this position, but that doesn't mean it isn't sexist.

I don't understand why you're calling out "people who think they aren't sexist". Why is that point important? (Besides to belittle me?) I'm not claiming to be free from bias here. Everyone has biases both conscious and unconscious.

And can you please explain how it is sexist? (I have not studied sexism..and am curious to learn.) Your hint gives no justification except your assertion again that it is sexist without explanation.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#496

Post by nickpsecurity »

mpweiher wrote: post #273
Karunamon wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's coming from a lifetime of not having her experiences taken seriously and situations like this backfiring. Or, because corporate culture almost everywhere can be summed up with the phrase "don't rock the boat", gender notwithstanding. There's no need to prejudge every woman as a victim - certainly one you know nothing about other than a one paragraph story on HN. This is what's called benevolent sexism.

This. (Or you can just call it sexism) At one of my previous employers, we had a woman quite high up in the hierarchy (boss's boss, or maybe one more level) who regularly called on young male interns to "fix" her computer, which invariably involved them crawling underneath her desk...or asking pretty much all the inappropriate job interview questions etc. etc.

Wow. Interesting example. I wouldn't fix it while she was sitting at the desk lol...

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#499

Post by nickpsecurity »

Mz wrote: post #174

So, I am female. When working at a Fortune 500 company, I once emailed a colleague and copied our two bosses. I advised him to never speak that way to me again. It went to HR. I got interviewed. I assume he got interviewed. He was not fired. He never spoke that way to me again. I eventually reestablished trust with this man and we got on well. I suspect he got sensitivity training. I was not told what went down. It w…

Good job on that situation. This one seems a bit different as I'm with some guys that almost everyone, even frat boys, knows what she claimed is something that can annoy people. I differ from most on a few points.

1. It happened on the weekend on personal time on WhatApp chat she agreed to. That's personal and has nothing to do with work. I don't think it's a work issue until it impacts work by happening at work or being a recurring problem of harassment with its obvious effects on teams.

2. Building on that, I'd like to hear both sides of the story and address it. There could be details on her end we don't know. On his, it could be a one-off thing that's correctable and not as bad as we think. Although, odds of that are low given she said "as friends in a work context" then got MILF and I'll tell you a secret as a response.

So, I'm not all for kicking someone to the curb after hearing a claim like this. I understand the legal risks people are bringing up. Someone might choose to eliminate it from their company given people are effectively disposable in terms of IT new hires. Same with the guy with no social skills. Yet, I'd at least investigate it from his perspective and weigh in on whether I'd consider it a work issue at all if it stayed one-time outside of work.

Thoughts?

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#500

Post by kelukelugames »

nerd-fight wrote: post #420
wernercd wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was "after hours" between two adults? Was it a couple comments, that got rebuffed (You think I'm cute? Thank you, but I'm not interested) and was then dropped? Was it repeated comments that continued after "she" said no? I wouldn't use those terms with someone at work, during working hours... I wouldn't think it's earth ending to compliment someone after hours, outside of the work place (The terminology is a…

Hitting on a fellow employee after work hours with a tinder-esque technique is grounds for termination. The female employee has little recourse to stop the advance, and has not approved it. Workplace courtship protocol requires slow, deliberate advancement with explicit ACKs from the receiver.

This can be company policy but it is not required. Companies are only legally required to prevent harassment at company sponsored events and commutes to the events.
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