Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#481

Post by King-Aaron » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 2:21 AM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #282

King-Aaron wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will also always be someone else to do the work if you don't. Some people just like to eat.

Just because someone is willing to, say, torture a rat, I should be the one to do it? That's a non-sequitur.

I feel this is akin to strawman logic.

However using that as an example, there are people who work as vermin exterminators, or people who work in labs that have to euthanise lab mice. They probably don't enjoy it, but when there's a need for something you'll find someone to do it.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#482

Post by alain_gilbert » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 4:09 AM UTC

brightball wrote: post #174

When I was in college I finished a couple of programming projects late. My professor said if we could prove that it was done on time he wouldn’t penalize us so I found a program that would let me alter windows time stamps. I’m sure he knew and accepted it anyway because he was a great teacher that seemed to enjoy letting us creatively solve problems more than sticking to specific curriculum. Was my favorite class in…

lol, I did the exact same thing.

The teacher's face was priceless as she discovered my work was on the school server since "3 days ago". (she was looking for it specifically every single day)

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#483

Post by 3pt14159 » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

avs733 wrote: post #279

3pt14159 wrote: post #41

I suspect you're not going to get many personal stories here because it would be self-incriminating. But I have a couple from some people I know in tech. 1. I know the guy who, pre-Snowden, actually designed many of the pieces of network gear needed for the dragnet. His perspective was basically: Yes it's wrong, but what do I know? I just design electronic circuits. 2. Same guy also mentioned how at another company h…

>It's one thing to sell these things to an allied government, it's quite another to have them on the open market. Honest question...why? The result/intent seems the same whether done by a state or nonstate actor. In fact a state actor seems more likely to use it because of a greater feeling of moral justification.

Because terrorists target civilians on purpose.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#484

Post by ForHackernews » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 2:11 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #267

iamleppert wrote: post #209

I created software that was used by call center agents to bid on “bathroom” break time slots and kept track of who was on break and actively punished those who didn’t follow the rules. It rewarded those that had higher performance and who took less breaks with higher priority. If an agent didn’t come back from their break a security guard would automatically be dispatched to find them. For the same company I also mad…

There's a decent (fictional) short story about systems like this: http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

This isn't fiction anymore. Amazon uses systems essentially identical to this to manage their warehouse "pickers". Their performance is continuously tracked and they're retained or terminated based on those performance metrics.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#485

Post by avs733 » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #483

avs733 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's one thing to sell these things to an allied government, it's quite another to have them on the open market. Honest question...why? The result/intent seems the same whether done by a state or nonstate actor. In fact a state actor seems more likely to use it because of a greater feeling of moral justification.

Because terrorists target civilians on purpose.

1) Those are incredibly arbitrary labels and you either know that or should know that

2) The US drone program regularly targets first aid personnel and rescuers.[0]

[0] https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2012-02-04/cia...

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#486

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 3:55 PM UTC

stealthmodeclan wrote: post #362

iamleppert wrote: post #209

I created software that was used by call center agents to bid on “bathroom” break time slots and kept track of who was on break and actively punished those who didn’t follow the rules. It rewarded those that had higher performance and who took less breaks with higher priority. If an agent didn’t come back from their break a security guard would automatically be dispatched to find them. For the same company I also mad…

First i thought that this is scary but I've had many friends who told me that they they play games all day at their office and once boss called them in their cabin and they expected to be laid off but were given a small raise instead. "I take lots of cigarette and bathroom breaks to fix my makeup/hair and Snapchat my friends. I can't see myself working hard. I am not a sheep". Those are the exact words. This is a sce…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#487

Post by DavidJustin » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 4:36 PM UTC

netaustin wrote: post #289

After Jared Kushner originally bought the New York Observer, I was hired to lead the tech team, which I did for a year and a half in house then for three more as a vendor. He asked me, out of band, to blackhole articles critical of his commercial real estate colleagues and I complied.

The way you handled this does not speak well of your character. You should have: 1. Preserved the articles in a safe place. 2. Resigned. 3. Given the articles to another publication and state what happened. What I see here is that you were concerned first about your own finances. That is what makes you look bad. Ethics first, finances second.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#488

Post by tootie » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

netaustin wrote: post #450

Rzor wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should've used a throwaway.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I've been open about this on Twitter and to a team that wrote a profile of him in the wake of the election. That a newspaper publisher would participate in an administration that labels the press the enemy of the people is a total betrayal of the journalists and other media professionals who worked hard for him for years.

CNN just put this on their front page. Did they ask you for comment?

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/media/jared-kushner-new-yor...

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#489

Post by 77777777 » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

dirkt wrote: post #378

SamReidHughes wrote: post #101

I built my computer graphics final project in Haskell so that the TA wouldn't be able to run it and grade it. Then for our presentation, I babbled on and on about the math and went over time so we wouldn't have to give a really crappy demo.

Wouldn't have worked back when I was TA ... First, I'd have been able to run it (or grade it even without running it). And yes. I've seen a lot of crappy Haskell code. I've written a good amount of that myself when I was learning Haskell back then. Second, assuming I didn't know Haskell, I'd have stopped your babbling in the presentation at some point and asked you to run it. Third, any student that does unusual thin…

You sound like a man of refined tastes. Big "Rick and Morty" fan I assume?

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#490

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

DavidJustin wrote: post #487

netaustin wrote: post #289

After Jared Kushner originally bought the New York Observer, I was hired to lead the tech team, which I did for a year and a half in house then for three more as a vendor. He asked me, out of band, to blackhole articles critical of his commercial real estate colleagues and I complied.

The way you handled this does not speak well of your character. You should have: 1. Preserved the articles in a safe place. 2. Resigned. 3. Given the articles to another publication and state what happened. What I see here is that you were concerned first about your own finances. That is what makes you look bad. Ethics first, finances second.

> The way you handled this does not speak well of your character

Given the question asked at the head of the thread, any response for which that was not true would have to be viewed as a kind of humblebrag.