I'm guessing that this practice is not possible in the European Union?
Extremely common practice.
Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
461–470 of 523 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
#462Legal or not, Pave is unethical.
How so?
Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
#463In the UK and EU it would be outright illegal on GDPR grounds (unless you consented to it, which would be unlikely without coercion — also illegal)
Pave (and many other comp platforms) are prolifically used in the UK and across the EU because no individuals personal data is being shared. Pave doesn't get told 'louthy is a software engineer and gets paid £50k a year' - they get a list of job titles, seniority, and salaries but no identifiable data.
Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
I routinely get emails like "we'd like to hire you as our CTO, and because we just got a bunch of VC money, we're prepared to offer you a generous comp package of up to $90,000 salary plus .05% equity! Must be onsite in San Francisco." If they were aware of market rates, they could avoid making potential candidates laugh at them.
Founding engineer is the biggest ripoff in tech.
Literally the worst experience of my life. I don’t even mention it on my resume or LinkedIn or anything. I suppose it was a success and the product is still doing fine. I just never want to do that again unless it’s for myself.
Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now this is some remarkable gymnastics. Are you also an investor in Equifax or have some other financial interest in similar services? If not, I'm very curious to hear how you tied yourself into this knot.
I find that I have struck a nerve with some folks. I have no connection with the industry at all. But that doesn’t prevent me from understanding the implications. Equifax does this stuff because it is profitable. It is profitable because companies buy it. Companies buy it because they can put the information to use for their benefit. In doing so, some consumers are harmed and others benefit. Also, for the record: I d…
Sure, consumers benefit so much that the example you were able to produce is the ability to write a personal check to purchase a car. Totally notable benefit relative to the violation of a person's expectation of privacy.
Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not sure this is true. The last time I changed jobs I had my TWN report frozen, and the background check company was really confused and said “we can’t seem to verify your job history through our normal means” without specifically saying why. I had to send some redacted paystubs.
With the passage of the Economic Growth, Regulatory Relief, and Consumer Protection Act which was signed into law on May 24, 2018, security freezes do not apply to the making of a credit report for use in connection with "employment, tenant, or background screening purposes" (see Sec. 301(a)(4)(I) of the Act [page 34 of the PDF below]). https://www.congress.gov/115/plaws/publ174/PLAW-115publ174.p... To be fair, I'm n…
I agree that it is actually pretty confusing what kind of "freeze" The Work Number offers when you do it, especially since The Work Number does not distinguish between hard inquiries and soft inquiries and groups both together as "Verifiers who have procured or attempted to procure your data in the past 24 months". Most freezes only block hard inquiries, which involve the extension of new credit. Background checks typically come in as soft inquiries and therefore bypass security freezes. Oddly enough, there are some companies that extend credit even with soft inquiries, so a security freeze will not stop fraud there.
That said, I have seen anecdotes online that say that when somebody pulls a frozen The Work Number report, it comes back as blank even if there is information in the file. This is different than how freezes are handled elsewhere. Most places just report back that the report is frozen when a frozen report is requested. They do not imply anything about the state of the information in it.
Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
#467[dead]
Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
#468I have never heard of Pave before, but this just sounds like yet another copy of Equifax's "The Work Number" [1]. Basically, HR at many companies gives your salary and employment history data to Equifax, who then sells access to the information to certain parties with supposed need to access it, including potential and current employers and creditors. This report is likely one of the most invasive consumer files out…
I downloaded a personal report from the work number website and found to my horror that my employer was reporting every. single. paystub. gross and net, to equifax. That felt like a huge breach of privacy. Given that equifax had already proven incompetent at keeping my data secure, I immediately sent HR a request to stop sending my supposedly 'confidential' pay info. They politely told me to kick rocks, so I went on…
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Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
#469I have never heard of Pave before, but this just sounds like yet another copy of Equifax's "The Work Number" [1]. Basically, HR at many companies gives your salary and employment history data to Equifax, who then sells access to the information to certain parties with supposed need to access it, including potential and current employers and creditors. This report is likely one of the most invasive consumer files out…
I downloaded a personal report from the work number website and found to my horror that my employer was reporting every. single. paystub. gross and net, to equifax. That felt like a huge breach of privacy. Given that equifax had already proven incompetent at keeping my data secure, I immediately sent HR a request to stop sending my supposedly 'confidential' pay info. They politely told me to kick rocks, so I went on…
Yep. Equifax got hacked a few years ago and the Government let them use ITS credit monitoring tool for those affected instead of reaching into its own pockets to pay for a third-party solution.
#sad #speakingOfMonopolies
Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am an investor in equifax. Let me clear up a misconception on where the data comes from. Half the data comes from large enterprise customers, who “sell” the data in exchange for Equifax doing I-9 verification for free. The other half comes from 39 payroll companies. Every single payroll company except for Rippling and Gusto sell paystub data to Euifax. (Rippling will start next year). Those are exclusive revenue sh…
I hate the argument of "you cannot be a competitive company without being a scumbag." It's a bad argument through and through.
Perhaps you would find it to be more palatable if it were phrased as: "You cannot be competitive as a company if you do not serve the wants and needs of the customer."?
But, of course, that says the same thing. These companies are scumbags because that's how the customer wants them to behave. In this case, because it makes executing payroll cheaper for the customer, which is a highly desirable trait to the customer.