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Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

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461–470 of 1001 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#461

I can't speak for everyone, but in the 6 years and 4 companies I've worked for, we have hired only 2 front-end engineers. Full stack is simply what we want a vast majority of the time. So I'm not saying it's impossible to find something but just from a numbers perspective it's just not in demand (I worked at 2 startups and 2 mid-size companies, big tech probably does hire front end devs, but I can't say for sure).

As a frontend developer, with the usual caveats of anecdotal experience etc, I'm somewhat inclined to agree when talking about regular employment. Over the last decade or so I've worked in companies that range from a few employees in total to thousands of people, and most of the time I'm either the frontend guy or one of a very small handful. Most of the time the value you bring to the table from the technical side is unblocking other people, that is, making sure the design system is consistent, everything builds, nasty frontend-specific bugs are fixed, etc. Everything else can be delegated to generalists which gives the company a lot more flexibility around how to hire and arrange work.

The one place where this trend does not hold in my experience is contracting. I've done a fair bit of it throughout my career and being a frontend development contractor or similar is like selling hot cakes if you bring a lot of experience to the table. The main customers are generally companies who don't have that one guy who figures out frontend stuff and in the end they have a critical mass of mess that they hire someone from the outside to come in and fix pronto.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#462

It's not a good job market, but it doesn't seem normal to spend six months applying and only get _one_ interview. It might be worth asking friends or former colleagues, ideally people who actually are involved in recruiting (hiring managers etc) to take a look at your resume and LinkedIn profile and see if there's anything glaringly wrong with them. Is your resume in a weird format, or is it structurally weird/overde…

> whereas everyone else would call that person [with 5 years experience] a junior engineer I’ve met people with 3 years experience who I’d consider more senior than myself (8 years). Some folks just learn really fast and/or don’t do much else other than work. Not sure time is relevant to your skills or title after about 2-3 years.

>Some folks just learn really fast and/or don’t do much else other than work.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't consider junior/senior to be defined by how "good" you are at programming. Obviously the hope is that senior > junior, but there are other, softer, skills involved with being a senior.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do, and quite frequently. After more than a 2 decades in software development (rails/web/...), for me to consider a developer to be a senior it needs to: * Communicate: For example: can explain tech concepts to non tech people, or inform on Monday that the sprint will be unlikely to be done in time. * Can estimate and adapt to changes. Be boring and predictable. * Can work/collaborate/teach with other devs. I got t…

What you're discussing has little to do with seniority - those are some personality traits that are great to have, but you either have it in you or not - people who are bad at explaining stuff will usually stay bad at it for the rest of life (but can still be fantastic in e.g. architecting things). Being a senior dev is IMHO much simpler. It's all about being able to solve problems independently, without needing supe…

This is really off the mark.

I was horrible at communicating succinctly in both written and oral form and bad at PowerPoints and diagrams until 2016 - at the age of 42. I definitely wasn’t comfortable talking to “the business” and customers.

I got my first dev lead job and watch how my manager - the director of IT - at a mid size non tech company was able to translate my technical designs and challenges to the higher ups. I learned a little from him through osmosis.

I changed jobs in 2018 and I started proactively working with my CTO (my manager), sales and the documentation writers to become a better communicator.

By the time a chance to interview with BigTech in the cloud consulting department (yes full time job) fell into my lap in 2020, I had no problem passing a 5 round mostly behavioral interview where I had to describe technical accomplishments, business impact, scope, etc in STAR format - over video conferencing without the use of a white board.

I was still a little rough around the edges. But three years later, I consistently get great feedback from customers about my presentations and my ability to explain concepts and challenges to technical and non technical audiences at the same time. I’m not bragging just saying that it can be learned like anything else.

On another note, being able to work independently when spoonfed business requirements is considered mid level behavior according to the guidelines at every single major tech company that I’m aware of.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#464
post #12

We are getting literally thousands of more or less qualified applicants for most of the roles we're hiring for at Dropbox right now. Can't speak for other places but I imagine it's similar for some. I don't know anything about your resume or qualifications but it very well may not be _you_ that's the problem, per se. As others have suggested I would see who you know places who can pull you out of the pile.

How much have you raised the hiring bar due to the flood of qualified applicants?

The internal standards are basically the same but who gets an interview has dramatically changed due to the enormous resume pools. Where we would have interviewed a decent chunk of generically plausible candidates before the lay-off waves we now tend to be interviewing plausible candidates with some kind of special expertise related to the role.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#465
post #335

Reach out to people you've worked with in the past. After having five years of experience, you should have worked with at least a handful of people who need someone to fix another broken website. These could be managers, people on your team, people on OTHER teams, vendors, salespeople you've spoken to, anyone. Ideally, you should ALWAYS keep in contact with people you've worked with, even if it's just emailing them "…

I would be totally weird out if some of my past co-workers suddenly reaches out to me with bullshit smalltalk to ask for a job. Or random people from my past sending me happy birthday ever year. I am probably not social enough to understand that, but that sounds like a lot of work just to stand out as kinda weird.

> I would be totally weird out if some of my past co-workers suddenly reaches out to me with bullshit smalltalk to ask for a job.

What, why? This is what professional connections are all about! Sure it is weird when like a social friend from childhood reaches out with an ulterior motive, but it's not weird when professional connections reach out for professional reasons. You're the weird one on this one :) And you're probably limiting your own career with this hang up.

I love it when past colleagues reach out. Even if I'm not personally hiring or don't think they'd be a good fit for my current company, I probably know of other people and companies to introduce them to.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#466

I hate to say this, stop applying. Find a recruiter on LinkedIn. This is what it has come to. There are thousands of resumes being sent at my company, yet the recruiter can't find anyone. Why? Because no one is applying through her link. The regular resume channel is reserved for bots at this point. Contact a person and you have more chances.

Fwiw: I’m an employer, and sometimes people ignore the “how to apply” instructions on our site (which say to email to jobs@) and reach out straight via eg LinkedIn and I always file those in my “can’t follow a simple instruction” pile. Not to say that what you say will never work, but I think it’s worth pointing out that at some companies, application processes might exist for a reason. For me, having all application…

If they're doing both, I'd reconsider that policy. A lot of people will submit a normal application and additionally reach out through LinkedIn, since for many companies their direct application process might as well be a garbage bin even for qualified candidates.

If it's solely through LinkedIn fair enough I guess.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#467

Be careful when batch applying. My company, for example, requires applicants to repeat a code word in the email subject line. Last time we had an opening, it was clearly stated in the job description, yet 90+% of applicants didn't do it. We then sorted them onto the same pile as those guys from India that booked a CV spamming service, meaning no human ever looked at the CVs of people who didn't follow this simple req…

Good tip, but to offer a counter-point: I skip a lot of text when reading job descriptions because 99% of the time they are packed with marketing nonsense. It's so dull, meaningless and repetitive that it's sometimes comic.

Ie toilet paper company: "Here at XYZ corp we believe we will change the world forever through market-leading technology that inspires generations. We hire innovators, explorers and change-makers. We're non conformists on a mission. blah blah blah"

The real job role: "be some sysadmin for an ancient legacy platform".

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#468
I've been mentoring many new engineers and students this past year and there's a lot of people in your position.

Overall, the biggest setbacks are network and a lack of focus in the niche. Frontend developer at a professional level requires a top 5% (roughly) resume to be a competitive applicant.

I live streamed about some of the harsh truths people are dealing with now (not learning fundamentals being one of them) https://youtube.com/live/yNqWwX4jsI4?feature=share

Let me know if you (or anyone) want to discuss this further. There's a lot of ways you can set yourself apart but it's good to understand that we're not in the 2015 tech market anymore. Most people have to have an exceptional resume/network/or a calculated niche.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#469
Its combination of location, experience, salary expectations and sectoral business conditions.

In a good market everybody needs warm bodies, the standards drop, the pay levels rise.

In a poor market people focus on the absolutely required positions (e.g. replacing critical vacant roles) and pay levels drop.

Location (country / region) is quite important too, there are places with chronic and dire shortages in IT expertise (but salaries might not be great).

These are the fundamentals. Then you have the overlay of market making / matching which is clearly totally broken and only gets worse.

What is important is to find the discipline and energy to keep developing while job searching. Maybe work on a open source project or learn something new, expanding your expertise by going deeper or broader.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#470
post #311
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the interest rate. Investment money is no longer (near) free.

Meanwhile companies are having record profits. What gives?

>Meanwhile companies are having record profits.

Profits are measured in nominal terms, we've had the highest inflation in 40 years, and employees wages lag. Bigger revenue numbers, smaller costs means more profits.

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