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Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

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Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#461

Post by Myrmornis »

Given the prevalence of alcohol in many cultures, it really seems that developing a substitute drug from which one can immediately and completely sober up on-demand (with no hangover), and which can plausibly be legalized, is going to be a major medical/social/lifestyle advance (and possibly make a lot of money for some people). (I think I read that David Nutt in the UK was leading a team claiming to be developing substances along those lines?)

Adding my personal data point to the discussion:

- I like drinking alcohol. I do it socially.

- When I drink socially I often am doing good for my relationships with other people; if I were staying sober I would not be being so social. I find it very hard to not drink at social occasions.

- However, like others commenting here I hate the way that I cannot think effectively about my work the morning / day after drinking. I also dislike feeling physically ropey in the other ways of course.

- So, personally, I've felt very conflicted about this for years. In some ways I'm jealous of people who seem to be able to integrate it into their working lives much more easily than I do.

- For the above reasons, I don't drink at all most days, and often go a week or two without a drink. However I vaguely suspect that that makes tolerance worse when I do drink; certainly I whine much more about the after-effects than other people I know.

- Maybe I should try tricking myself a bit with alcohol-free beers etc and testing to what extent I can enjoy socializing like that.

- So, this is a topic that has been around for ever and that I care about quite a lot. Admittedly it's a bit of a first-world problem, but somebody solve it please! Surely it's not beyond humanity's abilities to come up with a substance that is fun and mind-altering in the desired ways, could plausibly be legalized by the (increasingly open-minded on these topics?) governments concerned, and which we can purge from our bloodstream / cancel the effects on-demand?

Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#462

Post by MissionInfl »

lastofus wrote: post #60

Check out the Sinclair Method, which is basically taking Naltrexone before you drink. Also check out the book "The Cure for Alcoholism: The Medically Proven Way to Eliminate Alcohol Addiction" by Eskapa. I used this method, along with keeping a log of drinks consumed, to eventually quite drinking over the course of a year. I went from having anywhere from 3-8 drinks a night, every night, to eventually stopping comple…

I run the risk of becoming a single topic commenter but The Sinclair Method has had such a profound impact on my life that I cannot resist. It turned me from getting fired from FAANG for blacking out at work events and getting into trouble to completely sober in one year. If anything, I am too sober now, I had intended to continue to drink socially using Naltrexone but at this point I don't have the urge to drink just one beer even while knowing all that I need to do is take the pill and it is ok to do.

Highly recommend reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication has a next step for anyone interested in learning more. Not only is the community extremely supportive, the sidebar links out to great resources including a free/legal PDF of the aforementioned Espaka book. That book was my starting point, highly recommended, it is a quick read and lays down the foundation for The Sinclair Method in the first few chapters (it is an incredibly simple system and that is why it works).

Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#463

Post by jcims »

535188B17C93743 wrote: post #456
jcims wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Left to my own devices, I tend to settle into a pattern of 2-4 drinks per night, 5-6 nights a week (I actually tracked this for a while with a spreadsheet). This is where I would settle as well, except some Saturdays when I'd have a bloody mary in the morning then just nurse gin and sodas from noon until 2am Sunday. Just enough to keep a little happy buzz going, I really don't like getting drunk at all. My daughter…

I feel called out right down to the gin and sodas from noon until 2am and burning down a handle of rye.

It's a tragedy it's so bad for you in the long run.

Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#464

Post by brooksbp »

You have to find something you love more than drinking. Something to choose over drinking.

I used to love drinking. I still do, and probably always will. It may break your heart and drive you crazy to kill something you love. But reconciling the cognitive dissonance is worth it. Have honest conversations with yourself, for however long it takes..

For me, I love my kids my wife and physical training more than drinking. So I don't buy alcohol anymore when grocery shopping and I recognize and avoid social situations that are primarily centered around drinking--there are plenty of other opportunities to connect with people that do not involve drinking. I am also OK with knowing that some people simply do not understand this--it's all good, and I don't care.

Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#465

Post by blakewatters »

There is this lesson that keeps coming up in my life again and again that I believe is true, applies effortlessly to matters of substance consumption, and generalizes out to life in general: think in reverse.

What you want to do is have a clear vision of what the life you want looks like and then work backward to where you are right now, then walk that path.

When you think forward incrementally with thoughts like "I should drink less" or "Do not drink beer" you are prescribing a behavior that is detached from an identity. Who is the person you will be that behaves this way because these behaviors are aligned with who you are?

Consider the difference between eating less meat versus becoming a vegan. One is a forward looking behavior, the other is a backward looking identity. If you are a vegan, you cannot consume animal products because that is who you are and to be a vegan means that you cannot consume animal products. The behaviors and identity are intertwined in a self-reinforcing system. This is strategy versus tactics.

Veganism and other extremely well defined identities are useful for making my point but it need not be so extreme. You can create a custom identity built around a set of ideals, policies, and rules that you define. I am: "a vegan" is equally valid to "a guy who has 3 beers on Wednesday nights watching the game with his boys". Define your values, describe who you want to be, then figure out the delta from where you are at right now to where you want to be. Then do it or admit that it's not what you really want and who you intend to become.

Setbacks and fuck-ups are inherent to the human condition. They do not matter. If we are still on the path we can take two steps forward, one step back and still finish the race. Black and white thinking leads to shame and guilt, which undermines and destroys everything. Life is messy and happens in the grey. Yesterday might have gotten fucked up, tomorrow might be dope, more than likely it will be aight.

I hate to tell you this but you can swear off booze or smokes or bread or sugar or bowties or whatever now and forever but it is gonna come up again. You might get involved. That is not failure. That is life. Hating yourself is counter-productive. Notice when you get yourself off the path and course correct, keep rolling.

You cannot and should not ever expect that you can execute flawlessly and white knuckle your way through this mess we call life. Do not give up your power and agency by believing that some bullshit molecule has hegemony over you.

Be who you are. Do as you wish. Become what you want. Live the dream.

Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#466

Post by drinker4321 »

I would recommend getting professional help: find a counselor/therapist. It's not that they have any magic for you, but they can help you analyze your own behavior and feelings about it and give you a lot of guidance and personalized advice. They've seen it all! Look for "harm reduction".

I've been about 3 weeks without booze after about ~6 years of completely functional but pretty over the top drinking (I counted recently a sustained ~7 drinks every second night kind of thing for a month). I never realized how much it was affecting me: I'm now much more energetic, upbeat, and just feel better.

Many of us are completely functional yet at least borderline alcoholics, it's worth taking it seriously and thinking carefully about your relationship with alcohol!

Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#467

Post by onion2k »

Eupraxias wrote: post #425
onion2k wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol promises a great time. Alcohol delivers a hangover and regrets. I drink alcohol at least 2 or 3 times a week. I can't remember the last time I had a hangover. I just don't drink an excessive amount. Junk food promises a great time. Junk food delivers poor health and regrets. I eat junk food a few times every month. I'm above average on most health metrics. Going to the gym promises hardship and struggle. It d…

You posted the comment I would have added. But let me ask, what do you have in your existential toolbox that helps you do this? What have you experienced in your life which might make this easier for you than for others?

But let me ask, what do you have in your existential toolbox that helps you do this?

I realized that I occupy very little space in other people's minds. Not just me though, this is true of everyone.

I'm not exceptional or famous or rich. People may see me but they don't care. I don't mean that in a self-effacing "I wish they would care though!" way. I just mean that everyone is living their own life, fighting their own battles, and not really spending a lot of time thinking about other people. We think we're being judged harshly by those around us when we do things we perceive are bad, but the reality is that we're not. Other people aren't thinking about us at all.

Consider this - if you go to a bar and see 300 other people, you might notice half a dozen and think "Hot", "Fat", "Even hotter", "Ugly", "Drunk", "Slightly less hot than the first one". You don't really see the other 294 people. And after 5 minutes you've forgotten them all. Even the hottest one. Everyone is like that. Why put any stock in what they might be thinking when the probability is very high that you aren't in their thoughts at all?

I can live my life the way I want to because I don't really care about what other people think of me, because I realized that they just don't think about me.

I will add that I do care about what my partner and my close friends think, but I'm also able to accept that they'd tell me if they thought something about me was 'wrong'. I don't need to worry about their opinions because I can just wait until they share them if they want to.

I suspect the reason I'm able to think this way is that my partner is a therapist and talking to her for a decade has given me some useful tools for introspectively understanding what's going on in my head.

Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#468

Post by userlandmax »

I've been sober for 4.5 years now - totally free from alcohol and cannabis (my first and biggest problem). I've also quit smoking.

First off, let me say that it took many tries for these abstentions to stick - that is normal, and you should remember that. Be kind to yourself. It's a skill and a habit you are building, and those things will take time. It took me years to finally gain real duration in my abstention.

Second, the fact that you are considering abstaining should be enough of a signal to you that something in you wants to stop - and this is enough to base the new behavior on. You don't need anyone's permission to stop. When I stopped I always heard about how "I wasn't enough of a drinker" to worry about it, etc. Many comments of this nature came my way. Just know that you know yourself best, and if these thoughts are arising, you should explore them.

And third, remember that if you are feeling unfulfilled in some aspect of life, substance abuse (of most types) will cloud this bad feeling, and give you an instant uplift. What happens then is up to you, but for me it led to a persistent drain on my ambitions. Thus I wasn't doing what I wanted, but at the end of the day, comfort awaited in the form of my drug of choice. This was my revelation that I eventually used as motivation.

Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#469

Post by fleddr »

zachrip wrote: post #193
wfrew wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded! I'd also add that NA beer also tricks my brain into not feeling awkward when I'm at a bar with friends who're all drinking. Have also noticed that some NA beers make me feel elements of what I previously attributed to being hungover.

What elements are you referring to? Just curious. Maybe it's a calorie thing?

Or an association/placebo thing.

My brother and I once accidentally gave our dad NA beer. He didn't know. We soon realized it yet kept giving it to him all night. Bizarre, he actually got "drunk". Slower talking, ever more exaggerated stories, etc.

It's not just a personal anecdote, this has been replicated with two student groups in a bar, one served alcohol, the others not. Both groups got "drunk".

Likewise, you can give people a blue-colored and red-colored water and they will consistently report that the blue one is cool and refreshing whilst the red one is sweet. Neither has any actual taste.

Most people have experienced this glitch in our brains without realizing it. You have a glass of water and you take a sip. You violently spit it out. It's sprite, not water. It tastes like poison, even if you love sprite.

Being aware that you're drinking NA is technically not a placebo, but strong associations can still play a role in it act liking one regardless.

Re: Ask HN: How did you stop drinking?

#470

Post by WindyCityBrew »

What worked for me was convincing myself, deep deep down, that I don't want any alcohol to drink. It's just poison, addictive poison, that's provably bad for you with like no real upsides that aren't just shaky arguments propped up by billions upon billions (upon billions) of dollars in marketing spend. It's a shit, over priced drug. If you really want/need a recreational drug in your life, there are better options, it's a stupid sad shame that alcohol has taken hold as the main social drug, it belongs under the sink with the rest of the household cleaners.

So how do you quit drinking if you want to? Figure out why you still seem to want to drink at all. If you're going literal weeks at a time without drinking, that's great, you're probably not fighting the chemical addiction part. Most people that give in to daily cravings are just very addicted to the chemical alchohol and are constantly feeding their addiction.

After some weeks, if you're still going back to alcohol, it's because you still see it in some good/positive light. That's understandable, remember, billions and billions of dollars are spent every year trying to convince you that alchohol is THE way to have fun, relax, meet new people, and live that amazing life that only seems to exist on billboards and in commercials.

Once you just see alcohol as a poison you don't want to drink, not drinking alchohol is as easy as not drinking bleach or windex. For two years now I've had exactly as much to drink as I wanted to (zero), it's quite freeing really.

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