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Ask HN: Have you ever regretted open-sourcing something?

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Re: Ask HN: Have you ever regretted open-sourcing something?

#451
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is generally accepted that AI should not reproduce works that others have the right to. I think most people developing AI consider it a mode of failure when it does reproduce a copy of its training data. It remains an open question on who's responsibility it is to not distribute infringing AI works. The developer or the the user of the AI. Legally it is unclear due to a lack of cases providing precedent in…

> That brings us to what training actually is, Reading. There is no requirement for attribution to read something. > My concern is that people appear to be extending their claims to suggest that they control the right to be learned from. Some would claim that training actually is not reading / learning but embedding / encoding. This take creates arguments like the following; If I were to take his work and gzip it; do…

I think your points were mostly addressed in my post. Your issue is with reproduction. I'm not sure if there is any legal ruling on encoding without reproduction. I would expect hashes to be safe.

With regard to percentage change, that is not a factor of whether or not a reproduction should be allowed, but rather if something can be considered a reproduction. That should be a task for domain experts, and I think historically that has been done, Even Philip Yorke did that.

It is certainly not cut and dry, generally I tend to argue precisely that point when it comes to the details, but the guiding principles are clear.

Ideas are not copyrightable.

The laws involved are supposed to benefit society as a whole.

Patents provide some protection in the area of ideas. While heavily misused they are intended to incentivise development to make things actually work granting some exclusivity as a reward. A pure idea should not be considered enough (but often is) it ought to be the application of the idea.

Copyright is intended to promote creativity by offering a means to generate revenue from a creative work. The goal was to produce more (or at the least avoid inhibiting) works providing rewards to those who produce them.

There are issues today with laws being influenced to benefit a minority. A lot of IP laws were created in this way. I think the solution is to advocate and work towards laws that benefit society as a whole. Unfortunately people seem to see the imbalance and it normalizes the view that you should leverage the notion of intellectual property to get something for yourself (or your tribe).

The world is changing, when the notion of copyright was first Expressed, there was no ability to create a thing and then sell a million of them with no extra effort. When mass production and then mass media enabled this it allowed more creative works by allowing the cost of the work to be distributed across many. It was never the intention for copyright to enable a few people to get wealthy from a few popular works. As soon as the dominance of those few popular works made it harder for other creatives to make things themselves, copyright law started acting against the principles that it was founded upon

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever regretted open-sourcing something?

#452

>Maybe it became a burden to maintain, This is literally why i think AI coding cant touch dev jobs. In theory you can code LOADS of projects. Want a panel widget on your desktop environment, dont even know what language its in? ask ai to produce it. but when you have open source projects, people from all over the world bring their requests and problems to you. Some are great to just merge, others you have no clue wha…

Never done open source but always wanted to. Developers of open source could always ask for a fee to add features, and easy prs are easy prs. But for those more complicated things that don't interest the main owners, could they offer a PR service where if you pay the developers or the project a fee, they'll take the time to review the PR and tell you what to do for it to be accepted, or keep a 5$ review fee and retur…

Phabricator had its task tracker open to everyone, but the company behind it would charge for prioritization of tasks being tackled. If you want your bug fixed or feature implemented before whatever else is on the maintainer's inherent priority list, pay up. IIRC, they also did all development in-house without accepting merge requests from the outside, but I may misremember.

It's unclear how successful they were with this. Phabricator lasted for about a decade before announcing the end of its development, not all of which was as a stand-alone company. The announcement didn't say why they stopped.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever regretted open-sourcing something?

#453
post #323

Just add to the license "if you are a megacorp you owe us $1000+ per year". I don't understand why it's so hard.

It's not open source anymore once you add this; open source is defined as having equal terms for everyone.

That said, a few entities are advocating for something like this, e.g. Bruce Perens with Post Open (https://postopen.org) or FUTO with "source first" (https://www.futo.org/about/futo-statement-on-opensource/).

A big hangup with all of this is, who is "us"? Whom do you owe money to?

The original author? What if I end up forking the software without the original authors involved, am I going to do it for free with all the proceeds going to people who aren't working on it anymore?

Or all future contributors? Using which formula to divvy up that money? Lines of code, useful bug reports written, number of tasks triaged, number of tasks resolved, documentation authored, users supported - what determines the relative amount of your contribution? Who receives the payment(s) from $megacorp, can they be trusted to redistribute it among contributors? What happens when the original maintainer / payment receiver steps back or scales back their contributions? How to avoid the divvy-up metric being gamed by people who care more about the money than the quality of the software?

Yes, it's possible; no, "just add to the license" doesn't cut it. This is a much bigger question. How you answer these questions determines whether your project even preserves open source's main (user-side) benefit of forkability.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever regretted open-sourcing something?

#454
post #453
post #323

Just add to the license "if you are a megacorp you owe us $1000+ per year". I don't understand why it's so hard.

It's not open source anymore once you add this; open source is defined as having equal terms for everyone. That said, a few entities are advocating for something like this, e.g. Bruce Perens with Post Open ( https://postopen.org ) or FUTO with "source first" ( https://www.futo.org/about/futo-statement-on-opensource/ ). A big hangup with all of this is, who is "us"? Whom do you owe money to? The original author? What…

There are companies that already did this, I don't know why you try to complicate it.

Even comercial software can be open source.

Also "everybody" does not have to include companies. Sice when are companies people?

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