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Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#451

Post by pwg »

> Want a password manager? It's a SaaS now.

No, not all of them. Here is a password manager that runs locally, no SaaS: https://www.pwsafe.org/index.shtml -- plus here is a long list of compatible alternate versions that also are not Saas: https://www.pwsafe.org/relatedprojects.shtml

> Note taking app? SaaS.

Hmm, purists would say Emacs and Org-Mode here, but there's also a whole host of open source text editors that are not SaaS, and function just fine for "note taking".

> Image editor or office suite? SaaS (thanks Adobe...)

Again, no. The GIMP (https://www.gimp.org/) runs locally just fine for editing images on my systems, with no SaaS anywhere in sight.

Also, Libreoffice (https://www.libreoffice.org/) runs locally, with no SaaS, just fine as well.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#452

Post by JadeNB »

arcturus17 wrote: post #186
JadeNB wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Creative Cloud … all subscriptions and getting better all the time. I may be an atypical user—I'm definitely sub-power user in this domain—but everything Adobe has got worse for me since moving to "Creative Cloud".

Opposite. I'm an infra-power user that uses AI once every two months, and I like the experience. Can't tell how it is for power users though. Maybe they hate it.

> Opposite. I'm an infra-power user that uses AI once every two months, and I like the experience. Can't tell how it is for power users though. Maybe they hate it.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to claim that everyone had a negative experience, just that it was far from a one-sided thing where these apps could be said unambiguously to improve. ("In summary, Adobe Creative Cloud is a land of contrasts.")

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#453

Post by thot_experiment »

d0liver wrote: post #401
thot_experiment wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the heck subscription models are you using? In my experience the software gets broken over time and you can't do anything about it, including RUN THE OLD VERSION WHICH WORKED. There's no longer as much incentive for companies to improve because they'll get paid anyway instead of payment being contingent on actually delivering something useful. Yes subscription models are good for developers, no this doesn't make…

Pretty much all software companies now have ongoing costs associated with the software after you would have purchased it - ops, hosting, security updates, and backports for compatability. In order to sell it to you and have it make sense they'd need to charge you a lot for it - the cost of keeping it up for however long you might use it. Essentially you'd need to pay ten years worth of subscription costs and just not…

No. SaaS has wormed it's way into your brain at such a deep level that you believe that "ops, hosting, security updates, and backports for compatability" are necessary to have high quality reliable software. None of that is true. Software can be written to just work on a machine you install it on. My copy of Adobe CS6 still works just fine, software doesn't just stop working on it's own. There are no ongoing maintenance costs for multiple versions. It works just fine installing off the same media it did 10 years ago. Security updates are not really necessary if your software runs in autistic mode.

The reason you believe these things is because people build software in stupid ways in order to justify ongoing costs. Cloud-first software architecture is something you do because you want to collect rents, and then you try to write good software DESPITE it. It's not a sound technical choice for most of the software that goes that route.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#455

Post by jrm4 »

solardev wrote: post #315
jrm4 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd advise against it. Again, what many of us are saying is third party password managers are always a bad idea for fundamental reasons. Before, it was just the account owners and the site. Now there's a third party that has some kind of access, and that third party is a juicy target. Under what guarantee then? Why believe they are safe, especially since time has shown that many are not. It's dumb, and I will continu…

The modicum of security these companies offer are better than the nonexistent security practices at the places I've worked for, lol. I trust them way more than the average user or small business.

ya got me there. but still, we can do better :)

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#456

Post by bestnameever »

thot_experiment wrote: post #444
bestnameever wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But... what if I really do want a moral way to consume netflix content at a later date for a non-recurring, non-changed-at-their-whim cost? Well - sucks to be me because there's literally no way to buy it. I think that's also fairly immoral. I'm literally being held captive to a subscription for eternity, with no way to negotiate the deal, and the real loss of any catalogue item at any time with no recourse. Moral?…

Sure but buying a DVD isn't great either as it has a real destroying the earth cost for something that can be delivered to me using a negligible amount of energy digitally. I don't think there's a way of getting movies/tv shows reasonably in 2022, though I don't mind paying for, and do pay for subscription services such as Netflix, I just pirate the content anyway because it's a much better user experience. At least…

> Sure but buying a DVD isn't great either as it has a real destroying the earth cost for something that can be delivered to me using a negligible amount of energy digitally. I

Then buy the streaming version. If it is available by DVD, then you can probably find it available to purchase digitally.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#457

Post by jacobsimon »

coldtea wrote: post #391
solardev wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but I have to disagree too. Creative Cloud, IntelliJ, Figma, Google Workspace, Postman, Spotify, Vercel, Adguard, Google storage space, Alltrails, 1password.. They're all subscriptions and getting better all the time. Meanwhile it's the old purchased software like Windows and Office that get worse with every version.

You've mixed subscription based services (Google storage space) and content (Spotify) with subscription based software. For services, it might make sense. Even so, what exactly is "getting better all the time" about Spotify the software? It's been the same for like 5 years now. As for the rest: 1Password declined (turned to Electron shit), Creative Cloud keeps adding bloat while not adressing decades standing issues,…

Spotify doesn’t need to “get better” - you’re paying the fee for streaming rights to an ever-growing content library. Same with Netflix, etc.

There’s also an unspoken but important accounting detail here - if you run an online software business and offer a one-time, lifetime purchase for your product, you are now contractually on the hook to provide that service to customers forever, even if your business stops growing, which means that the liabilities of your business are not capped. This is bad if you operate with a lot of cloud expenses, and it means that these businesses are unsustainable unless new customers keep coming in, whereas a subscription model scales with utilization.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#458

Post by bhauer »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

Not really, because I saw too many software companies go out of business because not enough people wound up upgrading to the next major version -- the ownership model of software can be awfully feast-or-famine for developers' income, it's a very tough/risky business model. Generally speaking, I'm happy to pay a subscription because this way I get a steady stream of all the updates, and it's much more likely the compa…

> Not really, because I saw too many software companies go out of business because not enough people wound up upgrading to the next major version -- the ownership model of software can be awfully feast-or-famine for developers' income, it's a very tough/risky business model.

How is a subscription model any less volatile to the long-term support of an application from the end-user's perspective? To my mind, a subscription service is equally likely to close up shop if the subscriber count dips low enough, which is something that can happen as easily as a "new version" failing to sell well in a purchase model.

The downside is compounded, however, in a subscription model because when a subscription service fails, every user is impacted, both those who would have upgraded had it been a purchase and those who would have kept plugging away with an outdated version. At least with the purchase model, abandonware continues to function for some time.

Funny you should mention owning music because I also prefer to do exactly that rather than pay for a subscription service. And this preference is for two reasons: (a) I like being able to use the music where-ever and whenever I want, and (b) I like that more money goes to the artist via Bandcamp than say, Spotify.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#459

Post by chillfox »

urthor wrote: post #326
hermitcrab wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offering free upgrades for life is almost always a terrible idea: https://successfulsoftware.net/2008/09/08/should-i-give-free... And offering upgrades for life and then trying to backtrack on it is even worse.

Strongly disagree with the linked article. Individual customers, and corporate customers, are wildly different. The "buy it for life" business model works very well if you're trying to launch a mass market product to individuals. In your first year of a product, those users who'll pay upfront 3 years of subscriptions for a "lifetime pass" are an awe-inspiringly useful customer segment to identify. They're your way to…

Looks like short term thinking to me. Great for the next two years, but a problem after that, but hey can always have another job by then so it will be someone else problem.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#460

Post by jasonlotito »

tored wrote: post #434
solardev wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but I have to disagree too. Creative Cloud, IntelliJ, Figma, Google Workspace, Postman, Spotify, Vercel, Adguard, Google storage space, Alltrails, 1password.. They're all subscriptions and getting better all the time. Meanwhile it's the old purchased software like Windows and Office that get worse with every version.

Spotify, IntelliJ (Phpstorm), Postman is definitely getting worse.

IntelliJ you buy and you keep what you buy. That's it. You can pay each year to buy the "latest" version, with a price decrease every year until the 3rd year.

You can use the version you buy forever.

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