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Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

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Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been a teacher. It’s basically just a job. If you want meaning have your own children. I have no idea what proportion of software engineers consider what they do meaningful but the team who work on Google Scholar have done a great deal for me and I’m not even an academic. The drivers at Uber and Lyft and their riders have almost all had their lives improved by their existence. Amazon has made the experience of b…

I'm not sure I agree that Amazon has done meaningful work in the world of books. They've crippled the book industry. They've ran a ton of brick and mortar bookstores out of business, which has effectively destroyed community centers. There are other alternatives to Amazon that have "made the experience of buying books so much easier". Visit powells.com or alibris.com. And what they've done to the publishing industry…

Likewise for Lyft and Uber; they just haven't fully collapsed yet -- but give them another 2 years. There will be a smoking pit in the short-range transit market because it costs at least twice what riders pay today just to keep the drivers making the same amount when the VC subsidies go away, and nobody is willing to pay that. You're already starting to see the subsidies dry up with food delivery services where there's an additional $15-20 in fees.

The next recession is going to be a bloodbath for a lot of low-income people when the demand for the gig economy dries up.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#452
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The taxes are also much higher in Europe, especially on those compliant "upper middle class" techies we're talking about here. For anyone with basic understanding of arithmetics it's not even a question that EU techies are woefully underpaid, which is why all the good ones work in the US or for EU subsidiaries of US companies which actually respect the engineers.

I don't believe this is the case. In central Europe (Poland, Czech, Slovakia, Hungary) you can have EDIT: (using the most tax-effective form of employment, which most of the time is working as a contractor. Being a full-time employee comes with so much higher taxes in EU)

> AFAIK in US just the health insurance is very expensive.

Health care, housing, education, retirement are incredibly expensive in the US. Day-to-day life in the US is also quite expensive for most Americans. Most people in the US are in massive amounts of debt with little to no savings.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#453
Whoa there... you've got a blessing in disguise... use it wisely before you scamper off.

I've had two of these in my career - extended stays in a role which is "naturally prestigious" but had minimal actual challenge or operational responsibilities. They're fantastic...

The first one (at about your age) I used to court my wife and read / think EXTENSIVELY about business and life. It let me get my shit straight before the next leg up.

Rolled off that into a super-intense turnaround role and fatherhood (also super-intense) which took about 5 years. At the end of that, wound up as an "executive caretaker" managing group with instructions not to disrupt anything while they sold the company. So 3 - 4 years of sideways action with no meaningful opportunities for promotion.

Which turned out to be a MASSIVE gift. My bosses basically didn't care what I did with my time, so I learned how to code (full stack + database management) on company time and leveraged that into a successful side business. They funded me through the low-return slog of learning a new industry and starting a new business....

THANK GOD they didn't make me a fucking VP....

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but leaves you the maximum amount of (mental|emotional|psychological|spiritual|whatever) energy That's probably not the case. It looks counterintuitive but being bored and feeling unmotivated at work can leave you at the end of the day with much less energy than an very intensive but interesting work. Your 2nd paragraph makes sense for a person like you, but I'd guess that the OP is one of those different people, f…

That's probably not the case. It looks counterintuitive but being bored and feeling unmotivated at work can leave you at the end of the day with much less energy than an very intensive but interesting work. I actually agree with you on that. With the caveat that this is true if you do (by choice, or by inclination) really want your job to provide self-fulfillment / self-actualization / blah / etc. What I'm not sure a…

Thanks for this follow up. Really got me thinking.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#455
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>everyone else is so incompetent because he doesn't try and still looks good I'd argue against the "talent lottery" idea. Over the last 10 years as a software dev I'd argue that the 10x "rockstar" dev certainly exists, but it's almost always a case of situation/environment matching an already-moderately-talented employee extremely well. I've seen a lot of slackers suddenly explode into a powerhouse when given the rig…

I think 10x engineers do not actually exist, but maybe 0.1x engineers do, and when a 1x engineer is in such an environment they may seem like 10x by comparison.

They do. However, they can do 10X work only in deep work env, I.e. private office, no email, no meeting, etc.

Once you put the 10X eng in regular work settings, he will quickly become 1X or 0.1X

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've become a professional slacker who knows all these psychological tricks, knows what body language to use to make the desired impression, what to say and what not to say. My managers think I'm a high performer who also makes valuable social contributions to our team and this is reflected in pay rises. i.e. the Gervais principle [0] [0] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

Real question - is this possible to do as a woman? I often feel like the games of the office, especially the engineering office, are much more naturally suited (and familiar to) men. I've known people who seem to coast to leadership positions (showing no aptitude, and often, even interest in them!), people who are automatically first pick whenever a promotion becomes available almost from the moment they walk in the…

It helps if you work for the right company. Some are looking to bend over backwards to bring in and promote women engineers so they can showcase their newfound diversity. A higher up at my company was literally suggesting women hiring quotas (not sure how that's legal but whatever).

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#458
post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the typical clean cut, well-spoken, hard working, respectful, male SWE in the Bay Area making $120K+ a year in his 20s or 30s, who should be a magnet for women, turns out to be living in one of worst places because of male-female ratios among singles (and some other cultural factors). Yes, it's quite simple: there are many more men in the Bay than women, so women have their pick, and they can afford to raise th…

> I know some women in the Bay, working in areas like recruiting and marketing, who are dating VCs and CEOs exclusively and consider dating "plain engineers" to be beneath them. That sounds more like bullets dodged than a loss (for the engineers that is).

Sure. If that appeals to you, you're welcome to move to the Bay. You'll dodge so many bullets, that you'll forget what a date with a woman is ;-)

More seriously, while we'd love to impose moral views on reality, the simple fact is that when people can afford to be picky, they will be.

I don't know what you value in a romantic partner, but for simplicity, let's assume it's looks. If you arrived at some magical island where it was just you and hundreds of women, and 50% of those were supermodels, would you ever date an average girl?

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#459

Hi there, I did the exact same thing as you (at Google Sydney), before eventually deciding that I must strike out into the wilderness. In the few years since I left; I worked as a solutions architect managing a team, a team lead, a remote dev, and now in a startup. Front-end, back-end, flip-side, all the ends. So I've been deliberately trying different angles of my career to see what suits. I'd describe this process…

Which company you are working right now? I almost get a chance to join Google Sydney but failed at the last round. If there is any other company cooler than Google I will definitely want to try to apply.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blows my mind that in the US one can make such insane money in tech while still being a slacker and retire early with a dream house bought and paid for while in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year, no stock options, without any hope of early retirement or owning a decent home without a 30 year loan or financial…

> in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year There is so much wrong in this sentence. First, there is no more “meat grinders” in the US than in Europe. I worked at Microsoft and Criteo in Europe, and the slacking there seems to be on par with what OP describes. You mention 40/80k per year being pitiful? This kind of remu…

> Also, please, bear in mind that you cannot directly compare US and EU salaries. Your 80k€ gross in e.g. France should be the equivalent of $150k for a US worker; if you account for the same level of medical care and retirement savings. Not much of a difference after you realise this.

What makes you think that? As to retirement savings, American retirement payments replace 70% of working income on average, versus 60% in France: https://www.etk.fi/wp-content/uploads/PaG2017EN.jpg. The US retirement system is one of the better ones in the OECD. Like the U.K., Germany, Netherlands, and Sweden, the U.S. has a two-pillar system, with a public pillar and a defined contribution (i.e. 401k) pillar. The public system alone pays out about as much in absolute terms as in France. (60% of French pre-retirement income ~= 40% of US per-retirement income.) Adding in the tax-advantaged defined-contribution component (but excluding other private investment income) makes the total income replacement one of the highest in the OECD.

Of course, at the end of the day, a programmer is going to be a “net contributor” to the retirement system in both countries. The French person will pay (percentage wise) much higher social insurance tax to get a bigger (percentage wise) public pension check, while the American person will make a 401k contribution plus a lower social insurance tax. At the end of the day, that doesn’t have any effect on the comparison of 80k euros being less than $150k, because retirement savings will come out of both numbers.

As to healthcare, programmers are going to be among the 65% of American workers who get healthcare through their employer. That means that, on top of their salary, they get additional compensation in the form of employer-paid healthcare premiums. Meanwhile, the French person will pay for healthcare in the form of higher taxes out of that 80k euros. Although Americans spend twice as much on healthcare as French, that isn’t relevant to this comparison, because for the American the additional part is paid by the employer on top of the $150k. It’s not something you subtract out. (Put differently, the 80k euros versus 150k comparison understates the difference, because the American salary includes $10-15k in additional health benefits.)

Finally, cost of living is about the same in France as in the US.

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