Earlier quoted context omitted.
The guy is in a power relationship with his subordinates, he is definitely not the one to go and prescribe medication. The best thing he could have done is to send you to a doctor. If a CEO here in NL suggested I take some pills in order to improve my productivity and offered to supply them my first step would be to inform the board in writing and my second would be to resign my position. This is simply not ok, and n…
Not that it makes a difference completely but I have a feeling the employee was 22 and the CEO was 24
Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
451–460 of 642 posts
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#452I'm a dev at a startup. I was a regular cannabis user in my younger days, mostly by smoking, but some edibles and quit years ago. In the past couple of years I've started to start using cannabis again. I now vape because I don't need all those combustion byproducts in my lungs, and it lasts much longer, and you can reuse the already vaped material (ABV). It helps me relax after work at night, and get to sleep some da…
Have you always found you need some way to decompress from the stress? I'm trying to learn how stressful your work as a developer is. Is it the work or the work environment (a startup). Do most of your peers find some way to come down at night, be it weed or drinking or something else?
It's a blast from a technical innovation and engagement perspective, but it is just really stressful to be in such a high octane high risk environment most of your waking life. A couple to a few hours a few nights a week of just forgetting it all, relaxing to a few puffs and a video game or movie or a few episodes of TV or listening to a new album really helps. For me, it also helps me weather the stress at work(i would never come to work stoned), as I'm less liable to get worked up about shit that goes bad or deadlines etc. I just execute instead of dwelling.
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#453I am open to discussing this in raw detail - contact in my profile. Most programmers, scientists, people in finance and startups I know take a lot of stimulants. I take a lot of stimulants. [Edit - as others have pointed out, there's a strong selection bias going on here. I actively seek out people who I know take stimulants, and we naturally congregate socially based on a bunch of subtle and explicit cues that signa…
I live and work in Berlin for years now, working in startups, and I haven't met anybody that (openly) uses anything harder than tobacco or coffee, nor I met anybody who said they knew somebody to do that. Beer is common after work, once in a while. However, what you describe is definitively not normal. Not that I find that problem, or high-risk, or anything - it's just the fact that it would just surely catch attenti…
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#454I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my young…
I'll second this. I don't even drink coffee. I've encountered people who seem absolutely incredulous that I take no stimulants at all. "How do you stay awake?" is something I'm asked. My go-to response now is "I don't. If I'm tired, I get more sleep." Some of these people probably think that I'm lying. There are a lot of people who think that sleeping at work is a bad idea, but I think it's a lot better than guzzling…
Every couple hours, those 5 delicious minutes, the fresh air, the nicotine rush, then right back at it.
I quit smoking a few years ago when my wife got pregnant and have smoked only twice since.
I can actually grind more nowadays, and I'm less tired when it ends. It probably doesn't have anything to do with smoking or not, but that fact would be very surprising for my old smoker self.
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding from my American friends and partner is that it's exactly the same in the USA. Students, software developers, people in finance - for all of them stimulants are normal. I think most people aren't really concerned about being safe - the assumption is that because everyone else is doing it and nobody is getting hurt, it's safe. Which is mostly true (the jury is still out on the long term effects, but f…
> My understanding from my American friends and partner is that it's exactly the same in the USA. Students, software developers, people in finance - for all of them stimulants are normal. This is patently false, and I think your assumed universality of drug use is based in no small part on your use, and the crowds that you've associated with because of that drug use. I certainly know some people who've used stimulant…
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#456Let me clue you in on something: Your bias is showing, and while I'm sure it comes from a serious place of care, concern, and pain, it's offensively reductive. As in I already hate your book for supposing substances used or abused is a problem. Life is a monumental series of problems and our species has adapted for thousands of years. Unless your book is 90% about alcohol then it's starting from a premise of Puritani…
Sobriety sucked for Ozzy because he had heroin withdrawals. He was obviously not endorsing drug abuse, but empathizing with the struggle of overcoming addiction. Unhealthy people may say working out sucks, too, because it's hard. But in the long run it's rewarding. Sobriety should be celebrated.
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I was much younger I was exposed to a variety of different drug users. Everything you said is 100% spot on with anyone that abused drugs. I've come to learn that there a few different kinds of drug users. The first are the users who have not yet had to face the reality of drugs or how drugs affect them personally, even if they are suffering consequences from use. The mental gymnastics at play serve to protect an…
You shouldn't be lumping all "drugs" together. Of course technically every drug has a downside, for some it's not significant. Basically food is just a drug too, except by definition.
You could replace 'drugs' in my post above with 'alcohol', 'excessive exercise' or 'binge eating' and it would still hold true.
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#458I think it's interesting how some drugs (including very dangerous drugs) are normalised. Alcohol, caffeine, and (with a prescription, and in some cultures, even without) amphetamines[1] are just seen as "fine". People use them dangerously, openly talk about using them, joke about using them, participate and encourage a culture of abusing them, and nobody blinks. An acquaintance of mine ended up in the hospital after…
It's not mysterious. Coffee has been around over 500 years, and modafinil was discovered less than 50 years ago. Most people haven't even heard of modafinil. Plus, coffee tastes good.
>_>
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#459I'm not sure I would go as far as calling it an addiction but it's probably pretty close.
I've been BnC (blast and cruise) steroids for the last few years. This means that I never completely come off so my body hasn't had to produce test naturally since I started which may mean it might not ever work again if I do come off steroids.
Currently on a blast of testosterone enthanate and trenbolone acetate. Going to add in an oral soon as well.
As far as getting an edge in work I don't know if theres anything there but I have had people comment on how I just never get tired. I also never get depressed since I started using high doses of test. Of course I'm also working out a lot and it changes the dynamic of social encounters with people when you're all jacked. Some times it's good and some times it's bad.
Now by bodybuilding standards it's still very mild doses and I have not yet gotten into insulin and hgh yet but because of my salary I've been contemplating going on hgh Because of all the benefits of it. (HGH even the under ground and Chinese stuff is very expensive but has great benefits to regular people, see Elon Musk as an example of an obvious user)
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#460These days my main stimulant is coffee, but it makes me very jittery. I go through phases, maybe weeks to months at a time where I ditch coffee and take small doses (This morning I was stressed about a new client kickoff, so I took about 5mg of Adderall IR, along with the rest of the dozen or so supplements that I normally take. But I didn't drink my normal morning coffee and now I have a wicked headache. I hate overdoing it on the Adderall, because it changes my personality too much--makes me cold and distant from my friends and family.
My last startup, with big time VC funding--the whole startup team, myself included were heavy daily users of Adderall. It was an open secret. The CEO was the worst, with a 40-50mg/day habit. The COO was over the top neurotic, I'm sure made worse by her Ritalin habit. Biggest victim in that situation? Empathy and true friendship.
My last startup before that one, was a YC-backed bay area with a CEO also on mega doses of daily Adderall. This guy was the worst person I've ever worked with, and that is quite an accomplishment. He didn't sleep and insulted everyone on a regular basis. Would criticize everyone behind their backs about not working enough.
My own stimulant use and abuse dates back to my very first startup when I was just a programmer, during the first dotcom boom. My partying friends introduced me to meth, and I rationalized taking it based on the fact that it is available in prescription form, so "how bad can it be?" and that also I was clearly suffering from extreme ADD.
I was a daily user for over a year and a half. Would crush up the crystals and snort them. Was terrified of smoking or injecting the stuff and never tried it that way. Totally rationalized my use as necessary for the insane hours my team was putting in at work. 60-70 hours per week were normal. On some weekend I'd go out and party all night and not get any sleep. Eventually as the needed dose went up, I started losing a lot of weight, was down 100 pounds from my peak at one point. People were definitely noticing I was strung out although nobody ever really said anything at work. My close friends were aware and supportive. Some of them would do it sometimes too. I quit when it seemed my girlfriend was going to start using too--she wanted to be skinny and beautiful and popular, in her words. My conscience hit me too hard in realizing what was about to happen with that particular situation. Also I didn't really recognize my face in the mirror anymore. I flushed about 500 dollars worth down the toilet and quit cold turkey, knowing that I wouldn't be able to afford to buy more even if I wanted to do so.
My boss fired me about 2 weeks later. Said something had changed, that I had lost my spark. I'll never forgive that asshole for that. He knew what was going on and didn't care. It was only fine because my next job had me flying all over the place and making new friends, which made quitting a lot easier than it would have been otherwise.
I still miss meth sometimes. It gave me invincibility. I would code for what felt like days at a time, and all the practice really let me make strides in my skills very quickly. For a brief period of time I was superhuman, but there was almost always a crash. During those days I was using a lot of other drugs too and going out partying a lot, it all kind of blurred together. I barely remember it now more than 15 years later.
Quitting meth left me paranoid about getting hooked again for quite awhile afterwards, but after maybe 2-3 years realized that the ADD is real and that I really did need some meds to cope. I went to the shrink and easily got a script for Adderall. The first time around I remember that I was on it daily for almost a year before realizing that I didn't like who I had become. It made me cold and unloving and I hated it. I quit again. Ever since I've only taken it sporadically, when I really really have to focus something that I really really don't want to focus on.
Don't really have any regrets. Drugs should be legal--all of them. People should be able to decide how to use them and live with the consequences. Sometimes they're not that bad. Just think of how many people do coke on a regular basis and don't really have any ill effects. It just comes with the lifestyle of going out and staying out til dawn. And then eventually you grow up and don't want to do that anymore. At least that's what I've seen amongst my friends.