451–460 of 549 posts
I loved it when I was younger. The older I get, the less satisfying it is. At this point, I just tolerate it. I realize more and more how damaging it has been to spend 25 years sitting at a computer. It is not all bad - the career is great for supporting my family and the life we have built. I work with decent people. But I do not intend to take another programming job after my current one.
What are you going to do with your username?
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"Do you really need a basic income implementation for this to work? Can't you simply downsize your expenses to x/10 what they are now, work x/10 as much to pay for them, and do whatever you want for the other (10-x)/10 worth of time?" I am genuinely curious to know as to how this equation can be practically implemented. To be really effective in your non-work time, x would have to be at most 5 or less. There are mult…
> To be really effective in your non-work time, x would have to be at most 5 or less That doesn't sound very effective to me > Reducing expenses to half is pretty tough given the biggest expense is rent/mortgage. This is simply a matter of finding a location to live where rent is not a big expense. All you need is an internet connection. You don't have to live in the Bay Area to create software and there are plenty o…
In summary, I am not as opposed to your equation after this reply from you, but I still maintain its hard to do. As a challenge, I am going to see if I can accomplish it. Thanks for the kick in the back! :)
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It's a luxury for someone who isn't deeply in the hole and doesn't have a family to support.
Okay; I can empathise with that (not an empty statement). In that case, I can suggest that your happiness (and 'effortless' productivity) can stem from wanting to dig yourself out of that hole and "set your family up for life" - because looks like you've committed to that direction. This is easily construable as a presumptuous statement, these things are so much easier said than done. I have no right to play "guru" o…
I don't know if my goals are anything so lofty as setting my family up "for life", but certainly, part of the issues are economic and, to some extent, money can cure them.
I'm not a low-income individual--certainly not by non-SV US standards. But I started this business with $200 to my name and a high personal expense base, and ground my financial history and financial position to powder as a result. I also lost big on an upside down property in the housing crisis, a still ongoing matter. The volatility and sliding-backwards stress of self-employment in a non-scalable niche is a big part of my stress, with cash flow being the dominant stressor; a highly volatile $200k income can be effectively discounted to like $65k. I'm often envious of people who get paid a good salary to just code and not have to think about anything else.
However, I'm capable of conceptually and emotionally disentangling all that from the question of whether I fundamentally like programming per se. I'm still burned out on it in the best of circumstances. If money were no object, I'd do it a few hours a week to meet some functional need, but I doubt I'd be writing new software.
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"Count me in as someone who, given the support of basic income, can and will live frugally and give my working self 100% towards ethical objectives, as I understand them." Amen, brother/sister, amen. Exactly how I feel. Also I see you are empathetic towards animals. I have adopted animal welfare and animal rights as my single biggest ethical objective. After working for about 20 years on writing software for domains…
Just a side question on the issue of animal welfare, but how do you handle the paradox of the spider and the butterfly? I'm not sure it has an official name, so a simple description is that some animals kill other animals to keep themselves alive (such as a spider hunting a butterfly), so how do you provide for the welfare of both?
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> This is poisonous thinking. Programming is one of the most accessible industries on the planet that doesn't involve physical labor. If somebody has the desire, they can learn how to program and land a job for FREE. Not when you spend 8+ hours doing a demanding but low-paying job (like most are) and then have to come home (+1-2h) to take care of the spouse/children/parents. And even without the latter obligations, t…
Boy, you're right, it is hard. I guess that's good enough reason not to try.
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> Even compensation wise, it peaks very early and probably won't get most rich without a ton of luck. Its depressing to make comparisons, but 99.9% of developers will never make half of what a specialized MD or successful lawyer or someone in finance might make. Granted, the barrier to entry is much lower in CS (sometimes nearly nonexistent depending on the line of work). Med student here. Programmers don't have to t…
There a many countries where you don't have to borrow a single cent to study medicine. Instead, you even get paid a small support every month.
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No. Just because "it can be worse" doesn't mean someone doesn't have the right to be unhappy. It's a totally specious argument. "Your kid died? Well, what if BOTH your kids died? You have a lack of perspective..." Yes, they would no doubt prefer their high-paying job over a minimum wage job. But that doesn't mean that they no longer have any right to be unhappy with their lives. This is exactly the point of the hedon…
> "Your kid died? Well, what if BOTH your kids died? You have a lack of perspective..." Glass half full vs glass half empty. The hedonic treadmill has nothing to do with it. It's about being thankful and making the best of things. That's the antidote. However you look at it being a programmer in today's society has the potential to give you an amount of choice and wealth enjoyed by very few other industries. You can…
I'm saying that having a job like this doesn't mean you ought to be happy, anymore than being rich means you ought to be happy, as is well known.
I love it. I've been programming since I was 12 (I'm 32 now). For me, the key to avoid burning out, is to constantly keep learning new things. I currently work remotely for a NYC dev agency, and we have a massively good team. I have a couple of side projects, and one of them is generating an income of $500/week. Just keep building stuff during the weekends. Try to learn marketing, UX, UI, etc. Apply those new skills…
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Uhh... I have to ask: what, exactly, were you expecting? Exhilarating highs and a path to millions? It's a job. Most people don't have jobs that'll make them "rich". Be glad you aren't living paycheck to paycheck, or worse, are unemployed because the job you had was optimized away with computers. To be blunt, there's a sense of entitlement evident, here, that I have trouble grokking. You get to spend all day in a com…
I don't know how old you are, but I have a similar experience level with the person you're responding to and I think I and many of my peers relate in some ways. I think the parts he said about getting rich are a bit silly; that's probably more of a personal regret of his/hers then anything else. On the other hand, I think many other people I've talked to who have only worked for a few years kind of feel lost. I guess…
And that, I think, is a failure in our culture. American Protestant ethics teach us that your job should be a deep, elemental, almost spiritual part of who you are as a person. The result is that, when people graduate, and get that job, they discover that working is, quite often, a pretty shallow experience that, if you let it define you, will lead to a pretty unsatisfying existence.
So now you have a choice: get dissatisfied and start changing careers, hoping you can find something to give you a sense of meaning and purpose (which, if you're like a lot of people I know, very probably means you never excel at any one thing and therefore never get to the point of having a sustainable career that can fuel a fulfilling lifestyle). Or, start spreading those wings and becoming a well rounded person so that you're defined by more than your career.
I advise the latter.
Speaking for myself, I have a great lifestyle job. I love the people I work with, and the projects are reasonably interesting but not life changing, and occasionally repetitive. The work environment is comfortable and laid back, and I get to leave work at the office. The job absolutely will not make me rich, but it allows me to engage in not exactly cheap extracurricular activities (traveling, skiing, etc), while leaving me with free time to pursue numerous hobbies beyond programming.
To me, this constitutes success.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Do you really need a basic income implementation for this to work? Can't you simply downsize your expenses to x/10 what they are now, work x/10 as much to pay for them, and do whatever you want for the other (10-x)/10 worth of time?" I am genuinely curious to know as to how this equation can be practically implemented. To be really effective in your non-work time, x would have to be at most 5 or less. There are mult…
> To be really effective in your non-work time, x would have to be at most 5 or less That doesn't sound very effective to me > Reducing expenses to half is pretty tough given the biggest expense is rent/mortgage. This is simply a matter of finding a location to live where rent is not a big expense. All you need is an internet connection. You don't have to live in the Bay Area to create software and there are plenty o…
You've made it pretty clear that it's possible, if you're willing to jump through a bunch of hoops and are a programmer, to begin to have the privilege of an altruistic lifestyle. That is, the kind that will help thousands if not millions of persons to get higher quality of life.
'just move somewhere with low cost of living' - what about family and friends? non-profits are hiring in the middle of nowhere, I guess? what about most housing requiring a year-long contract? what about rural internet connectivity being a complete joke, and most cellular plans are by the GB?
'just take care of yourself and get a low deductible health insurance plan' - what about if you aren't healthy? what about if you have dependents? Where's the good care now that you're living away from cities? You're suggesting we move away from the best that humanity and technology has to offer?
'just cut down your expenses by 10x!' - ...you're joking, right? It's going to be really hard to live on $200/mo in any american city. Cost of living is going up everywhere, unless you're suggesting moving somewhere that's not growing. And wages have been stagnating for decades. See this post by Michael Church - https://www.quora.com/Why-do-software-engineers-make-so-much Only so much can be cut.
'just freelance! I did it, so can you' - times are changing, and that lifestyle simply isn't compatible with your average student coming out of our education systems. Also, freelancing suffers from being a chicken and egg kind of problem.
"If it doesn't make sense for a single person in the U.S. then who does it make sense for?"
Exactly. Hardly anyone. Our society is structured in such a way that it's very hard to be altruistic, compared to being selfish and seeking greater and greater pay through whatever job.
Have a social app idea? Here's $mil!! Uber for Z? $mil!! Oh it didn't work out? Ok, what else, what else...
Have a altruistic app idea that will improve the quality of life in a way that's hard to measure? Er haven't you heard? Not even schools can get funding. Teacher pay is frozen indefinitely.
Why does it take someone to be independently wealthy first, or live a lifestyle very much unlike the rest of the population, to be an effective altruistic in our society?