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Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

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Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#441

Post by JasserInicide »

jacknews wrote: post #51

Rejection email? You were lucky to get a rejection! Or an email. We used have to lick the bosses boots clean, applying for a job paying penny a year, an' if we were lucky we might get a thrashing to within an inch of our lives, and a rejection screamed in our ear. Luxury.... . Yes sure, I'm in the same boat, but probably with worse prospects (took a 'career break' to work on side projects, etc), and it feels like I'm…

You were lucky to get a rejection!

You could say that again. In the early 2010s, I always got rejection emails. 10 years later with milliennials now in hiring manager spots, ghosting is now the norm.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#442

Post by ryanbrunner »

rsynnott wrote: post #282

It's not a good job market, but it doesn't seem normal to spend six months applying and only get _one_ interview. It might be worth asking friends or former colleagues, ideally people who actually are involved in recruiting (hiring managers etc) to take a look at your resume and LinkedIn profile and see if there's anything glaringly wrong with them. Is your resume in a weird format, or is it structurally weird/overde…

5 years for junior for better or worse is well out of step with the industry - while you're right that you can get some massively inflated titles that are out of step with the norm, the norm is that you're an intermediate developer at a minimum and most likely a senior after 5 years.

It's dumb, but it is the standard nowadays.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#443

Post by foysauce »

I can't speak for everyone, but in the 6 years and 4 companies I've worked for, we have hired only 2 front-end engineers. Full stack is simply what we want a vast majority of the time. So I'm not saying it's impossible to find something but just from a numbers perspective it's just not in demand (I worked at 2 startups and 2 mid-size companies, big tech probably does hire front end devs, but I can't say for sure).

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#444

Post by jacquesm »

H8crilA wrote: post #369
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think it takes 5+ years to acquire those skills?! Man, I would be driven insane in an environment like that. Such a long time and a relatively low bar.

I think the point is that some people don't acquire it within 5 or even more years. Think of a typical checked-out worker, without any specific ambition in professional life. There's plenty of people like that.

Some, possibly even most, never do.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#445

Post by richardwhiuk »

abathur wrote: post #430
nelsonic wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Connect with me: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonic I will help you fast-track this.

I have a parallel-universe version of the question--from a universe where I've ~idealistically refused to create a LinkedIn account. How would you go about finding a recruiter sans LinkedIn? :)

Swallow your pride.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#446

Post by jacquesm »

cientifico wrote: post #341
whiddershins wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no one calls someone with 5.5 years of experience a junior engineer.

I do, and quite frequently. After more than a 2 decades in software development (rails/web/...), for me to consider a developer to be a senior it needs to: * Communicate: For example: can explain tech concepts to non tech people, or inform on Monday that the sprint will be unlikely to be done in time. * Can estimate and adapt to changes. Be boring and predictable. * Can work/collaborate/teach with other devs. I got t…

I'd add:

* able to take responsibility

* able to transfer skills and to guide juniors to productivity

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#447

Post by dmvdoug »

softwaredoug wrote: post #429

I’ll be honest. Some people are bad at interviewing and selling themselves. Some of the best people I’ve worked with are getting passed over because they’re quiet and undersell themselves. Some of the more incompetent people can bullshit their way through the process and really oversell themselves. They think they’re gods gift to the field, and believing that, they can sell it. It’s 100% Dunning Kruger. I don’t know…

> Some people are bad at interviewing and selling themselves.

100% me.

Also, hi, Doug.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#448

Post by jacquesm »

m00dy wrote: post #371
cientifico wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do, and quite frequently. After more than a 2 decades in software development (rails/web/...), for me to consider a developer to be a senior it needs to: * Communicate: For example: can explain tech concepts to non tech people, or inform on Monday that the sprint will be unlikely to be done in time. * Can estimate and adapt to changes. Be boring and predictable. * Can work/collaborate/teach with other devs. I got t…

honestly, I'm a senior developer and I don't give a fuck about collaboration.

I think you made the GPs point very effectively.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#449

Post by ryanbrunner »

ehnto wrote: post #400
arghwhat wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should definitely have outgrown a junior title after say 3 years of relevant experience, as that is more than sufficient time to be trained into a normal (non-senior) status. It could last longer if your company does not have a normal title (i.e., they consider junior == !senior), but someone with 10 years of relevant experience should have earned a seniority title of some sort.

I think you have found the issue to be honest, I think most people are expecting to be "senior" in place of "not junior" as soon as they prove they are good programmers. The senior title has been quite diluted by that. Seniority is about experience and not skill in my opinion, we see many talented developers who don't qualify as senior because they simply haven't experienced enough situations. I expect a senior to ha…

I think the missing piece is the intermediate / non-qualified title. Junior implies to me someone who requires frequent hand-holding and coaching even on small scale tasks. Senior on the other hand should require cross-functional communication skills as well as technical mentorship. There's a huge swath of developers who fit between those (solid individual contributors who aren't necessarily ready to lead a project or mentor).

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#450

Post by ryanbrunner »

vsareto wrote: post #403
Silhouette wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not automatic but historically a good but not exceptional developer would expect to make senior after maybe 5-8 years of experience. Someone who was still needing close supervision - which is what "junior" traditionally meant - after 5 years would be exceptional and it wouldn't reflect well on either the developer or the places they worked at the start of their career. Of course this is about the level the employee i…

This is why software is not a serious profession: it has no consistency in progression and recognition. I think I would drive myself mad if I tried to live up to the crazy expectations of senior from most internet commenters.

This is really startup / tech titles as a whole. If anything engineering has avoided the rampant title inflation that has been commonplace among other departments (try finding a sales rep who isn't at least a senior / director).
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