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Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

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Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#431

Post by scarface_74 »

Just so hopefully this doesn’t come across as insulting and for context, I spent my entire long career as a journeyman enterprise CRUD developer until 2020 working for mostly unknown companies.

What do you think you have that sets you apart from all of the other developers who are looking for a job?

If you can’t answer that question and you are randomly applying for jobs through job portals, it’s no better than playing the lottery.

While I have been working for a long time, I stayed at my second job for nine years and by 2008, I was very much an expert beginner at 34 years old. The only thing I had going for me were soft skills and I was a good “developer”. But I was a horrible “software engineer”.

2008 was the first and last time I randomly submitted my resume to portals. After getting another job and while muddling my way through the recession, I answered every recruiters call, accepted lunch invitations, went to local tech events and built a network.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#433

Post by fefe23 »

I have been getting a lot of spam from India or Pakistan trying to sell me front-end or app development for several years now. If people are so desperate they resort to spam, maybe that that kind of job is just not in high demand anymore?

(I have no idea, it's not my area of expertise; just posing the question)

EDIT: I have heard stories that companies keep job offerings open when they are not actually hiring. They want it to look like they are dynamic and on the way up and just can't find good people to hire, when in reality their business is stale, their prospects are grim and the inflation and previous over-hiring has doomed them and what they are really looking for is a Google to buy them out.

In fact I have heard of companies hiring people they don't need because they think that makes them more attractive as a buy-out opportunity to companies who actually do need those people.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#434

Post by washywashy »

whiddershins wrote: post #287
rsynnott wrote: post #282

It's not a good job market, but it doesn't seem normal to spend six months applying and only get _one_ interview. It might be worth asking friends or former colleagues, ideally people who actually are involved in recruiting (hiring managers etc) to take a look at your resume and LinkedIn profile and see if there's anything glaringly wrong with them. Is your resume in a weird format, or is it structurally weird/overde…

No, no one calls someone with 5.5 years of experience a junior engineer.

I think the issue is that people sometimes incorrectly assume job titles are standard and used the same across different companies. At some companies titles are more about pay bands. I’ve worked places with a bunch of “senior” engineers, but that was mainly because the company pay bands couldn’t compete with the market for junior engineers so they’d hire them as seniors. It’s bad too because sometimes once an employee gets that title they expect it at other companies even if the experience level isn’t there yet, which limits their mobility because they refuse to take a backward step in their career, even if the pay is better

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#435

Post by blitz_skull »

rsynnott wrote: post #282

It's not a good job market, but it doesn't seem normal to spend six months applying and only get _one_ interview. It might be worth asking friends or former colleagues, ideally people who actually are involved in recruiting (hiring managers etc) to take a look at your resume and LinkedIn profile and see if there's anything glaringly wrong with them. Is your resume in a weird format, or is it structurally weird/overde…

> whereas everyone else would call that person [with 5 years experience] a junior engineer

I’ve met people with 3 years experience who I’d consider more senior than myself (8 years). Some folks just learn really fast and/or don’t do much else other than work.

Not sure time is relevant to your skills or title after about 2-3 years.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#436

Post by re-thc »

vsareto wrote: post #403
Silhouette wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not automatic but historically a good but not exceptional developer would expect to make senior after maybe 5-8 years of experience. Someone who was still needing close supervision - which is what "junior" traditionally meant - after 5 years would be exceptional and it wouldn't reflect well on either the developer or the places they worked at the start of their career. Of course this is about the level the employee i…

This is why software is not a serious profession: it has no consistency in progression and recognition. I think I would drive myself mad if I tried to live up to the crazy expectations of senior from most internet commenters.

> I think I would drive myself mad if I tried to live up to the crazy expectations of senior from most internet commenters.

And maybe that's the point of it. Senior without the title inflations is meant to be an actual high level position - not 50-100% of the company.

A lot of places have just replaced senior with staff/principal engineers instead, but senior used to be a well respected and unique title back in the days.

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#439

Post by dbg31415 »

A lot of times people get put on "cool down" after applying.

Apply to a job and even if you don't get a rejection letter, they may still say, "Let's put a pause on this guy for the next 6 months."

So if your resume didn't start out strong the first time, they may not even be looking at the revisions.

Similarly, if you're applying in the same city, in the same sort of work, don't be surprised if the HR teams have shared notes on prospects.

When I worked at an agency, we had one talent scout who was just head and shoulders better than any we had worked with.

I asked her what her secret was, "How are you able to find such consistently good developers?" and she said, "I get plugged in to the network, and I listen to my peers -- if they pass, I pass. Saves me time to go after better candidates."

Anyway I don't know if something like that is impacting your job search, but I'd try and diversify a bit. If you were a dev, look at Test Engineering, or DevOps, or Project Management work for a bit.

Remember you never have to list a job on your resume. It's always OK to say, "I took a sabbatical." And it's OK to shine rainbows on the truth, but it's never OK to outright lie. If you get caught doing that, you're burned -- to everyone in that network.

Anyway, if I had time off, I'd spend time on Udemy, and YouTube, and such. Just learning as much shit as I could.

I really want to get better at SketchUp so I can do more woodworking projects, but I haven't had time.

I have a billion things that need repairs, or modifications in my house, and it's always, "Sigh... I'll get around to it next weekend..."

And if you finish your little home project list, hit up your parents for things they need help with. Odds are, if they're elderly, they need a lot of help with tech and cleaning and even simple stuff like getting their oil changed can lead to old people getting ripped off these days. Anyway, if I had more time I'd want to take care of more of that sort of stuff for my mom...

I could be laid off tomorrow in this economy... so who knows.

Oh, also I feel like most companies are aware that salaries have plummeted in the last year. If you were making $200k in SF, and are asking that for a remote job... yeah, basic stuff like that can sink you. Make sure you are pricing yourself for the role.

EDIT: One last thing... I have seen a TON of people lately who are really shiftless. One guy literally said, "I only work remote because I don't ever want to wear pants again." And it's cute I guess, but it's not something you want to bring up in an interview. Make sure you don't come off as someone who got "laid off for cause." Keep your background clean when doing video calls and... put on some pants even if they can't see them! (=

Re: Ask HN: Is the market bad, or am I having the worst luck job hunting?

#440

Post by xmcqdpt2 »

herbst wrote: post #335
jameshush wrote: post #46

Reach out to people you've worked with in the past. After having five years of experience, you should have worked with at least a handful of people who need someone to fix another broken website. These could be managers, people on your team, people on OTHER teams, vendors, salespeople you've spoken to, anyone. Ideally, you should ALWAYS keep in contact with people you've worked with, even if it's just emailing them "…

I would be totally weird out if some of my past co-workers suddenly reaches out to me with bullshit smalltalk to ask for a job. Or random people from my past sending me happy birthday ever year. I am probably not social enough to understand that, but that sounds like a lot of work just to stand out as kinda weird.

I agree the small talk is weird, I prefer when people are direct and message me asking if I know of an opening. I usually check on our internal job bank and give them a referral (if they are good!)

IMO it is absolutely not weird to ask connections if they can refer you for a job? The company even pays me bonuses for successful referrals! (Well maybe that's over now, I haven't checked recently)

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