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Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

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Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And hey, when the gig is over you got a new laptop that just needs to be formatted and it's all yours!

At my agency we have a client that always ships us locked down laptops (healthcare space so understandable). Thing is this client, while very good at getting the laptops out to you, is horrible at actually getting them back and pretty much lets you keep them....I have 4 Macbook Pro's sitting on a shelf behind me, all from this client.

Doesn't this put you in a position of potential liability, if, say, someone breaks into your home/agency, steals those 4 laptops, and leaks personal healthcare data off them?

Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I didn't actually use a VLAN: I had a spare TP-Link router lying around, so I installed OpenWRT[1] on that and gave it a static IP on the home network side, then plugged it into my broadband provider's box. On the cloud side, I basically followed a guide, maybe [2] but I don't remember exactly. Once I had pfSense installed, I first set it up as an OpenVPN server. I then went back and configured the OpenWRT box…

Thank you! Though I agree with the sibling comments that it's probably not something to dabble in unless you're pretty confortable with this... May I ask, is this somewhat in your area of expertise, what kind of development do you do (supposing you're a developer?). Sorry if too inquisitive, just curious :).

I think you should dabble in it! This stuff isn't magic, it's just a bit esoteric in places. That makes it a great (and valuable) skill to learn.

I do cyber/data stuff, often on the network-y end.

Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are absolutely a list of things that I don't want the company doing on my hardware, but I'm okay with on their hardware. Off the top of my head, remote wipes/resets make sense. Frankly, I prefer the company has that option, just in case I lose my work laptop. Encryption should cover it, but I'll take the backup. Compliance agents also have a legitimate reason to exist, but I don't want them on my person…

This is really the thing people miss. It's a company laptop first and foremost and the right to privacy goes away. The amount of compromising content we've seen and or found on investigations is mind blowing. No one needs that on a work computer. Keep your private life private from your employer.

The OP was about a contractor though. The way I think about somebody who is truly a contractor is that they are their own IT department, and their capabilities in the IT space should be at least on par with whatever the client's IT department enforces for in-house employees.

The above two comments however seem to be arguing from the viewpoint "this is just an individual person and any individual person surely needs babysitting by a big mighty corporate IT department because otherwise they can be expected to do stupid things like losing storage media with important data and not having backups, never doing updates, having their computers full of spyware, intermingling private stuff and work stuff from different clients in such a way that there's data leakage, etc. etc."

If you want to truly treat a contractor as a contractor, you should think about it as your IT needing to interface with their IT in such a way that it makes sense for both parties. And "here, use this laptop" is just frequently a bad solution from the point of view of the contractor's IT.

I also heavily object to the notion that any expectation of privacy goes away on a company laptop.

Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the source of the friction be them asking to install spyware on your personal machine?

There are multiple points of friction in this scenario. Their asking you to install spyware is friction for you, your asking them to buy a laptop is friction for them.

Charge them for laptop rental. As another poster said. If you have other clients you are betraying their trust by installing the spyware.

Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

#436
post #405
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply - if you are working only for a single customer within a certain time period/receiving the majority of your income from a single source, you are considered to be an undeclared employee and not really a freelancer (= business) - and that exposes both you and the company to big fines. It is not the only criteria for this but a pretty large one. Both France and Germany have such laws but other countries do too. T…

In France in practice you can work 2-3 years for the same client without too much problem from what I could see. They just make sure to change the mission once in a while, so that the contract does look like it's lasting too long.

Well, that it is poorly enforced doesn't make it any less illegal. If you get an audit from the social security or tax office there, good luck.

Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

#437
Hi, founder of Secureframe (https://secureframe.com) here. Secureframe helps streamline compliance across SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, PCI DSS, and more.

There are so many accurate responses in this thread. Like many have mentioned, SOC 2 is indeed not a prescriptive framework. Much of the confusion behind SOC 2 stems from that fact. It allows you to customize your InfoSec program to your company's needs. As we know, this can vary from company to company, hence why I read so many correct ways of approaching this specific situation in the thread.

Why SOC 2? SOC 2 is primarily customer-driven (this is why it becomes so urgent on your org). Buyer's require their vendors to undergo these third-party audits for their own vendor security management. While they would love to take you at your word, they feel a bit better knowing that a third-party took a look under the hood of your InfoSec program.

Employee vs. Contractor The legal status of an employee vs. contractor doesn't really matter for SOC 2 or most other InfoSec frameworks. At a minimum, what they really care about is the individuals ability to access, modify, view or otherwise have an effect on production/customer data. If an individual has that ability, they are likely in-scope (this can mean a lot of things). If an individual is indeed in-scope for your audit, they should follow your InfoSec program. You can always have carveouts for certain scenarios (for example, background checks are illegal in many countries so you may exclude them for individuals in those countries).

Company Policy What this all comes down to is the policy that the company has put in place. Does the company require all employees and contractors regardless of access to have hard drives encrypted without any carveouts? If so, then the company must follow that practice, or they will risk get an exception on their SOC 2 audit report. SOC 2 has some minimum standards that auditors look for but ultimately the company sets its controls and policies (if they are barebones they might not get accepted). Auditors are human and since SOC 2 is not prescriptive, reasonable minds will differ as to what those minimums exactly are.

Common Recommendation This has been mentioned a number of times in this thread but what we typically see and recommend is that you treat all employees as in-scope (this makes it easier on the company so they don't have to make determinations about who should and shouldn't be in-scope) and then for all contractors, you create a carveout where if they don't have access etc to production/customer data then they are not in-scope. In this case, such contractors would not need to track things like hard drive encryption, rendering the need for the agent moot. This seems in-line with the original posters role, and we would typically not have our customers require this of such a contractor.

There is nuance needed to make some of these determinations. For example, a company could hire a contractor who only has access to source code. In this case, an auditor may say that this contractor is indeed in-scope since they have control to modify source code that is pushed to production, even though they don't have direct access to the production itself.

We can't speak to the Drata agent, but based on what we would expect, the organization in OP's question is most likely trying to simplify evidence gathering when it comes time for the audit. There are other ways to grab such evidence (manual screenshots), but they are time consuming. Based on OP's job description it doesn't seem like its necessary for OP to be in-scope in this scenario and therefore the organization shouldn't need to collect such data. However, as we mentioned, this organization could have more stringent policies and without more information there isn't a wrong or right answer here. What we can confidently say is that it isn't a hard SOC 2 requirement.

Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they all still locked to an MDM profile, if so while they're yours, at any point you could lose access to them and that sucks. There's a ton of laptops that have been up on Ebay that ended up having mdm. We bought a few on accident for our non-profit. Fortunately we were able to find the original owners and they were gracious to remove them. We were also lucky they hadn't been disabled. Thing is most people don't…

woo... linux and windows don't have that, at least not windows yet. you never know.... they might make uefi behind a subscription making mdm thing over to windows/linux side

Used to work in Healthcare, we'd use Computrace which operated at the motherboard firmware level. It can remotely brick a device and also automatically manage installing additional payloads in Windows once an internet connection was formed.

Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

#439

I would decline. There are other jobs out there. Another alternative might be to install it into a VM or old but freshly-paved computer.

So far my strategy is to just ignore it and pray that the problem goes away by itself. If I have to deal with it eventually - quitting is the most appealing option. However, the reason I asked here is to get a feeling about how common this thing is. Is this normal? Am I the rat in the lab, or am I just late to the party?

Am a contractor and have to use their VPN. It has provision for "end point scanning" on logon but they don't use it, yet.

Recently they provided a Macbook pro, in which I installed Little Snitch and taped the camera, so I don't worry any more.

Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really the thing people miss. It's a company laptop first and foremost and the right to privacy goes away. The amount of compromising content we've seen and or found on investigations is mind blowing. No one needs that on a work computer. Keep your private life private from your employer.

The OP was about a contractor though. The way I think about somebody who is truly a contractor is that they are their own IT department, and their capabilities in the IT space should be at least on par with whatever the client's IT department enforces for in-house employees. The above two comments however seem to be arguing from the viewpoint "this is just an individual person and any individual person surely needs b…

You can disagree with the expectation of privacy but it’s been held up in court multiple times that personal actions ok a corporate resource are not protected.

Ideologies and realties are different. If you care about personal data, don’t put it on the company. The company however has a huge liability with your personal data. I’ve mentioned else where I have dealt with issues of personal data becoming an issue for the company via blackmail, or in a couple cases, the company was legally required to report child pornography. So yeah, if you don’t want the company to know, don’t put it on their equipment. If you buy dedicated equipment for work, use it for work and work only. If you want to use your machine for Everything, that’s fine, but understand the risks and the lack of an expectation to privacy.

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