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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#431

Post by pkrotich »

I believe your post is a cry for help. It's clear you're not happy or challenged enough. Perhaps you've simply been doing what you do for income and you're now trying to find some purpose.

That said, I have a question: How on earth can you barely contribute as a developer and not get noticed? No one watches commits? No milestone or deliverables? Do you report to technical manager?

I can understand if someone is on a desk pushing invisible paperwork (mangers etc) - but to me it seems like as a developer it's hard to imagine the coasting you describe.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#432

Post by bentlegen »

wccrawford wrote: post #177
throwaway1777 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is the compensation is not based on how hard you work but the value you provide and what the market will support. Of course upper management works roughly the same hours as everyone else, but they also have far more responsibility.

Actually, compensation is based on what the company has to pay . There are some other rules, like they have to (overall) pay less than they make from the output. But in general, a company never pays their employees more than they think they have to. 10x programmers don't make 10x the pay. They might make slightly more, but not even 2x what a 1x programmer (of the same level, no comparing seniors to juniors) makes at…

If a company is doing its job correctly, a 10x engineer should not be leveled the same as a 1x engineer. (It's more complicated than that but, y'know.)

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#433

Post by taswellian »

cattown wrote: post #132

I've been a software engineer and managed software engineers for 20 years and worked in all kinds of businesses. This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. Doing just as much work as your employer requires and no more is way less of a problem than employees who actively steal, commit fraud, bring drama and distract other team members, or are introducing defects because they've faked their…

> You only have one life, do something with it that is satisfying. Get out of the rat race.

How?

I find satisfaction in many things, but none of those things pay the bills or put food on the table.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#434

Post by fxtentacle »

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them?

I've utilized people that shy away from actually doing the work in the past to justify my own high salary. E.g. "Look at X. I get 10x more done than him. It would be fair if I'd get 10x his salary, too, but I'll settle for only 2x."

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#435

Post by BTCOG »

milofeynman wrote: post #229
syspec wrote: post #55

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... They find a way to make any task take forever... If it was a smaller company they would be called out, but at my [very, very] large company - its very hard to get f…

I still remember one guy who did that and he'd pass work to me I complained to my manager and nothing happened. I work a lot and am super driven. Don't like people like that.

I can assure you, the feeling is mutual. If you are the type who overachieves, would complain to a manager, and enjoys meetings, you should realize those fed up with banality and fake niceties of corporate office work that do just enough to get by really do not like you, either.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#436

Post by cvwright »

kittiepryde wrote: post #309
cvwright wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to point out that this > I truly believed in the mission, worked hard, was paid a lot, achieved great things and was overall very satisfied. and this > used to leave at 5pm sharp are not mutually exclusive. We have this weird thing in tech where we think that, to be passionate, you have to work yourself into the ground. But this is stupid. There's organizational psych research going back decades showing t…

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30793826/ Do you happen to know of good studies to back up --- organizational psych research going back decades showing that teams who work 40-hour weeks will quickly outperform teams working 60 hrs / week --- I've heard this before, but, I've never seen the studies talked about. I found this study via Googling, it took a little longer than I would like to admit. (I'm probably using th…

The main result that I’m thinking of is quite old — going back to the Ford assembly line days IIRC. NPR had a great segment on it several years ago. I’m on mobile now, but I’ll try to so some digging when I get back to a real computer.

I suppose there’s a valid question about how well those oldest results transfer from manual labor over to knowledge work like programming. The NPR guest that I’m remembering seemed to think that the effect might actually be even stronger for knowledge work, not weaker.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#439

Post by wheelinsupial »

BbzzbB wrote: post #301
syspec wrote: post #55

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... They find a way to make any task take forever... If it was a smaller company they would be called out, but at my [very, very] large company - its very hard to get f…

What is IC? Google tells me Interstitial Cystitis, but my hunch tells me it's something else.

Adding “tech” or “tech meaning” to the end of an unfamiliar abbreviation can help refine the searches. In my case “tech meaning” brings up a Quora question that answers this.

Alternatively, you can Google “what is an IC hacker news” and you can find previous threads where this was asked and defined.

If you have a question about an abbreviation being used in HN (Hacker News), it’s probably something others have asked about before.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#440

Post by ineptech »

ConfessionTime wrote: post #242
ineptech wrote: post #168

Long time manager here. I call this "work-shy" and it is neither ubiquitous nor rare, I'd guess about 10%-20% of all employees, and it's certainly not unique to software or even to white-collar work. You should think of this as a problem. Even if it's not for your boss or your teammates (and it will be, eventually), it is for you. It is soul-crushing to fill up the hours. Two pieces of advice: 1) The "good" solution…

It is interesting the number of people who see this as a problem that needs to be fixed. Since this specific comment is near the top, I might as well address that here. Why should I work more? How will that improve my life? My self-worth is derived from what I do outside of work to the extent that I don't prioritize professional validation. The primary reason I work is for money. I make enough money that I can live a…

Deleted my previous reply as I didn't realize you were OP.

I characterized this as a problem because a) you made it sound like one, and b) in my experience, people in this situation are usually unhappy and struggling in other areas. If you can do hard work when you want to, and simply choose not to, great. When I have coached people who are in this situation, that is not usually the case - usually, they got in to software because they liked programming, and they enjoyed their work previously, and now they don't, and want to get back to that.

If that doesn't apply to you, great. I would say by way of warning though, that a) it's very likely your teammates have noticed and are frustrated with carrying you, and b) I would urge you not to get over-confident about your job prospects never changing. Any programmer over 50 can tell you that working a few hours a week was a totally viable career in 1998 and totally unviable in 2002.

Oh and one more thing: if the main thing holding you back from 40 hour weeks is that you wouldn't capture the value, the solution is well-known: become a contractor. It pays better, and your income will scale linearly with hours worked. A lot of people find contract work less satisfying, but you said you don't care about that, so there you go.

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