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Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

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Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#421

Post by kasajian »

Cognitive decline doesn't have anything to do with it.

I'll be 60 in three years, and it's much easier today for me to learn a new programming language, paradigm, API, etc, than it was twenty years ago. The reason is because: I spend a lot of personal time constantly learning new things, specifically focusing on things that seem scary and uncomfortable, not necessarily complex. If you already know Java, learning C# isn't much of a challenge for your brain. But if you've only programmed using Object-Oriented Programming, try a different paradigm entirely, an environment that's very different, including a different text editor.

Too many developers are too focused on sticking with what they know and optimize for learning the least possible. This is good and bad. It doesn't train your brain to deal with change -- very big change.

So if you've never used vim, force yourself to use vim on a project for six months. If you've only used vim, used Emacs. If you only develop on Linux with Tmux for cloud apps, go get yourself a cheap laptop with Windows, install Visual Studio, and try creating a WPF desktop app. or a Mac with an iPhone.

Back to vim. In my day-job I use Visual Studio. I have some side-projects that I work on that are entirely different environments. One is all NodeJS based using VS-Code. The other is Clojure using the repl. A third is using C and VIM, using raw gnu make that I hand-update. I also use both a Mac and Windows every day, which also adds the challenge of different common keyboard shortcuts on each.

So next time you got a problem to solve for yourself, write a commaand-line utility that is useful to you using C and VIM. Take it slow. Spend an few hours a week. You'll find that you'll have to get much better at context-switching, so you have to leave notes for yourself on what you're doing, where you left off, etc., much more than you do now.

The key is to force your brain to be uncomfortable, especially as you get older, even after you retire.

p.s. I seem to recall hearing John Carmack on some podcast talking about things like, where he recreated Wolfenstein 3D in Haskell, or tried using VI (not even VIM) on a project. I'm not sure what his reasons are, but hey if a strategy is good enough for Carmack, ....

Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#422

Post by clnq »

mmcnl wrote: post #329
riskable wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't compare web development with "normal" software development. Writing code for the web is 10,000 layers of added complexity far above and beyond literally any other kind of programming. "Normal" programming involves writing code that will run on one specific thing with (usually) one specific use case using tools (and often whole languages) made for that purpose. Web programming involves writing code that will run…

I agree that web development is complex. I disagree that abstraction layers add complexity. Abstraction layers solve problems. If you don't have the problems that these abstraction layers solve, then you might perceive that as complex, but most people actually do experience these problems. The web is not just for websites anymore, it's a universal platform for app distribution. This means web apps can instantly be ma…

> I agree that web development is complex. I disagree that abstraction layers add complexity. Abstraction layers solve problems.

True, until there's a bug in abstraction level 6 caused by an upstream change in proprietary abstraction level 3 that's been patched in abstraction level 8, but not for your specific case. Then it becomes complex.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#423

Post by tablatom »

arcturus17 wrote: post #375
mythhouse wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had unlimited energy till about 40 and then I hit some sort of cliff. This coincided with covid and being indoors using high velocity media like reddit/insta. I am not sure how much is age and how much is habits that caused this.

My energy levels drop drastically when I'm doing too much "high velocity media" or bottomless wells, be it Reddit, regular news, tv shows, movies, games, etc. I think it fries your dopamine and other neurological circuits. I don't know the science in depth but I have seen enough anecdotal evidence on myself and others to be persuaded that the relationship is huge. Do a screen fast for a couple of weeks and check out…

This is turning into a great thread and this comment is the most impactful one for me. I'm going to give it a go. My daughter is 18 and at least half her peer group are in a dreadful state in terms of mental health. You have to wonder if the impact of the modern media environment is way worse than we've comprehended. Of course that's totally unempirical but is the funding there for the studies we need? In any case it's easy to run the personal experiment, as you've suggested.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#424

Post by sixtram »

aidenn0 wrote: post #356

I'm 42 and I forgot my bitwarden passphrase. About 20 hours later I remembered it. I just sat down and was typing a much older passphrase despite having used the current one daily for over a year. That was probably the scariest part is that I remember the past few weeks as if I were using a different passphrase than I actually was (down to having typos on my phone that are impossible with my actual passphrase)

Just a tip, but print out your password, put it into an envelope, close it, and store it at your family or bank or somewhere. I do this for my 1password and google account in case something happens to me, but can also be useful if your memory fails you

Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#425

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

dataqat wrote: post #384
mythhouse wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had unlimited energy till about 40 and then I hit some sort of cliff. This coincided with covid and being indoors using high velocity media like reddit/insta. I am not sure how much is age and how much is habits that caused this.

I used to be able to work 36hrs straight (random work crunch every few years). Hit 40, launched into such a session, 2am hit a wall... "Can't. do. this..." Laid my head down on my desk and slept for 2hrs. Haven't been able to pull an all-nighter since.

It's a feature not a bug.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#426

Post by lallysingh »

LastTrain wrote: post #237
lallysingh wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give yourself credit for working at a higher level of quality.

Yes. Also, don't think you are too good to fail, we still learn by failing even at 50. I've said some more in another part of the thread.

If you're not failing, you're not learning!

Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#427

Post by tablatom »

hagmonk wrote: post #275
safety1st wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal anecdote: I'm around the same age as OP and until recently also felt like my thinking was slowing down over the years. I went for many years without an exercise habit. About 5 months ago I started lifting weights. The transformation has defied all my expectations and the biggest unexpected benefit is that my mind has become sharper, faster and more focused. I essentially feel like I've reversed a decade's wo…

Sharing my own anecdata: my Oura ring shows that on days I drink, RHR is 10bpm higher and HRV about 15ms lower. Exercise has a huge impact on sleep quality too. My theory is that when you're young, your body has a much wider margin for error. A few drinks or sloppy exercise routines never seemed to impact my work. As I've aged, the margin has shrunk, and now there's a measurable effect that I can no longer ignore. Ag…

Is the Oura a good purchase? I've been really eyeing the health benefits of the Apple watch but there's no way I want a portal into the digital world that's a flick of the wrist away. It's bad enough with the phone pickups.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#428

Post by vegancap »

I'm not sure it's age related, sure, we might slow down slightly over time, but what we lose in speed... we gain in wisdom, soft-skills, experience in general. Which I suspect more than makes up for a slightly decline in sheer speed cognition wise.

I can't help but think of Donald Knuth, aged 85, sat in his home office somewhere, still chipping away at some of the hardest problems in computer science.

It sounds like your problem is something more temporal. For instance, someone else here mentioned about other stresses and responsibilities in your life for example. It might be that it's just a boring and arduous task, not everyone excels at tasks that are just not that interesting. Besides, I don't think the vast majority of us are good at remembering layers and layers of calls and abstractions.

My advice is, there's probably nothing wrong with your abilities or your brain, just try to work on small sections at a time and don't be hard on yourself. We're not 100% all of the time, there are so many factors that play a part in how we perform on each task.

I'd also say that, 40 isn't particularly old, it's easy to think that when so many engineers are in their mid-20's, but in the grand scheme of things, your cognitive abilities probably haven't changed all that much since you were twenty-something. Hang in there mate.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#429

Post by didericis »

bqmjjx0kac wrote: post #190
Aeolun wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just don't completly ignore your genetics and biology and be open that they might speak-up and have a say too. They may have a say, but ultimately you can only try to deal with the cards you’ve been dealt. At least I wouldn’t just accept that I’m genetically predisposed to misery with no way out.

Just be mindful that the flip side of this perspective is to blame sick people for their condition.

The optimum middle is to try to figure out the most achievable pathway to help people to as much health as possible regardless of where they’re at, while accepting where they’re at, and encouraging persistence in searching for achievable steps out of sickness if none are available.

There’s an incredibly sad but inspiring documentary called “The Boy Whose Skin Fell Off” about a man named John Kennedy that died of a genetic skin condition called EB at 36. He did everything within his power to make the most of his life, and was brilliantly dedicated to squeezing as much meaning and good as possible out of his horrible situation.

Failure to attempt moving away from and transcending sickness is itself possibly the worst form of sickness, and something that can be easily cured by just having someone genuinely loyal and rooting for you, even if only your inner self. What sick people need most, more than simple compassion and accommodations for their problems, are people genuinely rooting for health/trying to find solutions or grieving the difficulty in finding any.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 40 and feel my mental ability declining. Programming seems harder.

#430

Post by gernb »

For me (late 50s), I find that I don't feel productive as I use to be and can think of several reasons

* the project I'm on is not "mine". I joined a sub team of ~30 programmers who've been working on a 5 year project. I'm not familiar with the code. this in contrast to previous projects where I was a lead / main contributor. I wrote the initial implementation so I had a very clear view of the structure of the project in my head.

* the project I'm on is not a passion project. I got very luck that most of my career I got to work on things I wanted to work on so I had passion to make them great. my current project I don't feel that. I'm sure part of it is coming in late. I think it's great project but my heart isn't in it the same way it was for many past projects.

As a counter example, I got permission to prototype something on my own for a few weeks. I worked ~80 hours of over time those few weeks because I was so into it and I felt super productive because it was 100% my code that I understood, no waiting for code reviews etc... I appreciate code reviews but compared to prototyping without the feeling a productivity without is incomparable.

* my passion for coding seems to have dwindled. maybe this isn't true given the previous paragraph but coding things I used to spend time exploring I have a hard time working up enthusiasm for like I used to.

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