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Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#421

Post by kjkjadksj »

addicted wrote: post #300

My biggest frustration with the WFH discussion has been that the vast majority of people say that the #1 (and sometimes only) reason they prefer WFH is to save time on the commute. But this has not led to any discussions on how we can actually improve the commute, improve housing policy so people can live closer to work, etc. Instead, people have simply decided that theh will WFH instead, an option which isn’t availa…

Its not just the commute but the other things around the house you can parallelize e.g. during a zoom meeting and save time. Doing the dishes, laundry, working out, running errands midday without traffic, not having to go to the dmv on saturday. That really opens up a lot more time than just the commute. Its really an entire paradigm shift of changing work from a block of time removed from the day, to just a series of tasks in your job queue that has some home chore tasks as well that can be taken care of when its actually convenient. You basically become an hpc job scheduler. Thats way more efficient than the blocks of time approach with going into the office and not being able to do these things.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#422

Post by samuel_backend »

commandlinefan wrote: post #124
samuel_backend wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I feel this is a bit of a black-and-white view that grossly oversimplifies things. And I am downright insulted by the last sentence to be frank. Blaming shitty management on extroverted techies. Are you sure about that?

> a black-and-white view that grossly oversimplifies things Seems like a perfect response to your original post, then.

Haha, I really tried to make it clear that the post just is my opinion and I don't claim to be "right" about any of those things. The reason it's so obscenely long is just that, I wanted to elaborate on how these things appear to me. I really tried not to fall into "WFH is shit and everyone who likes it is wrong". I mean even the title basically asks for input.

And yes sure, in one or two places I phrased things bluntly but always tried to make it clear that it's how it seems to me and not reproaching anyone for their preferences.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#424

Post by libraryatnight »

bodge5000 wrote: post #118

With all due respect, this is mostly my problem with the "work-from-office" (WFO for ease) crowd. Generally, the stance of the WFH crowd is that each individual should get a choice of what makes that individual happy. Very few, if any, of the WFH crowd want mandatated WFH, it would make no sense. But then the WFO crowd often says no, I don't care what makes you happy, because you being in makes me happy. That doesn't…

This is the crux for me. It's not that I find the opinions of the office fans offensive, it's that their ideal situation changes mine. They don't just want to be in the office, they want ME there too. They drag us into their problem. Where I work the office people pushed to get back into the office, now they're there and nobody else is and their new quest is "how to get more people in the office." You don't. We don't work in the office. You do.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#425

Post by jalk »

throw827474737 wrote: post #272
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also add that comments like this: > Now, I am fully aware that there's a low of people for whom the horror of commute doesn't make up for the gains of socializing and others that just abhor having to talk to real-life people. Then there are people who work mainly to get paid and do not care to invest themselves beyond what is necessary. Are remarkably condescending. Folks opting for a better work-life balance, wh…

Yeah, that also struck bad here.. > work mainly to get paid and do not care to invest themselves beyond what is necessary Dude, I am heavily invested into my work, but that doesn't mean I need to care for your social deficits - it can, but these should be mostly orthogonal things. Social investment is what I realized I really need to decrease at work, lol I still do it too much even virtually ( what is possible ). To…

I read "not care to invest themselves beyond what is necessary" as in meaning invest themselves into the job - not a general statement about the person. I have friends who are like that - they work their expected hours, but don't do anything extra - they don't expect to get raises nor promotions and they are perfectly fine with that. They put their energy into other things (which they can't live off), but they are by no means miserable, lazy or mismanaging their lives

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#426

Post by iLoveOncall »

> Then there are people who work mainly to get paid and do not care to invest themselves beyond what is necessary. But are those really the majority? I always saw tech as the field where a disproportionally large amount of people truly love what they do. Mostly, because it takes so much grit and persistence to get good at it that most people wouldn't succeed unless they see something in it beyond putting food on the table.

This seems to be the take of most people that want to go to the office. It's an insulting take. No wonder I don't want to see your face in the office if that's what you think of people that prefer working from home.

To me it seems like all the things you like about the office that you listed above are things you are supposed to get out of having friends. Have you tried that?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#427

Post by z9znz »

ghaff wrote: post #415
vladvasiliu wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be right, but as a personal anecdote, I totally agree with the sentiment you're responding to. I don't particularly enjoy working from the office and much prefer doing so from home, but I can tolerate it. I like my colleagues and shooting the breeze with them, but they're not my friends. But boy do I absolutely hate my commute, to the point that it shadows whatever positives there are when working from the of…

In the US, I have about a five minute drive to the nearby train station and then I'm something over an hour by train and subway into the city depending upon where I'm going. Aside from not being able to actually walk to the train station, I'm not sure how you improve on that given the distance no matter what country you're in. And having done that commute about 3 days a week for over a year, it was pretty bad even th…

Your public transport options are not common for most US dwellers. There are 10s of millions of people in the US who don't have access to any real public transport, especially trains.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#428

Post by dinosaurdynasty »

addicted wrote: post #300

My biggest frustration with the WFH discussion has been that the vast majority of people say that the #1 (and sometimes only) reason they prefer WFH is to save time on the commute. But this has not led to any discussions on how we can actually improve the commute, improve housing policy so people can live closer to work, etc. Instead, people have simply decided that theh will WFH instead, an option which isn’t availa…

As an individual I have essentially no ability to improve housing policy, etc.

I can however apply for and work at WFH jobs.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#429

Post by listenallyall »

criddell wrote: post #314
addicted wrote: post #300

My biggest frustration with the WFH discussion has been that the vast majority of people say that the #1 (and sometimes only) reason they prefer WFH is to save time on the commute. But this has not led to any discussions on how we can actually improve the commute, improve housing policy so people can live closer to work, etc. Instead, people have simply decided that theh will WFH instead, an option which isn’t availa…

> improve housing policy so people can live closer to work Or, improve labor policy so work becomes a much smaller part of most people's lives.

Come on... people work far less than they ever did before, that should be pretty obvious if you just think about it.

Further, tons of "work" is done with zero physical strain, lots of those "work" hours are the in-between stuff -- travel, meetings, calls, lunches -- meaning that actual hours laboring are even less.

https://ourworldindata.org/working-hours

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#430

Post by kjkjadksj »

sahila wrote: post #384
Ancalagon wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take this is the right line of thought. Restructure society so we work less, not so that we can work more.

But doesn’t this drive home OP’s point further? For people who work in service jobs - healthcare, schools, shopping, and restaurants/cafes, for example - how would you approach working less? People want to go out and eat and places are already struggling to hire. Parents want in person learning for their young kids.

Pay people more. Wages have been flat for 50 years for these positions.
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