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Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

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Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#421

Post by atmosx »

celticmusic wrote: post #356
wesammikhail wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the PhD statement made by the original poster. I am a college-dropout and dont think that PhD means jack shit. I interpreted it as "highly specialized knowledge" rather than a piece of paper. if the original author meant the actual academic pursuit then he is just whacked in the head!

If you don't think a PhD means anything, then you're wrong.

Could mean something, might mean everything, might mean nothing, might be completely wrong... everything depends on context and perspective.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#422

Post by brokenmachine »

nprateem wrote: post #417
brokenmachine wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the solution is to bypass some potential jealousy through mandating secrecy, instead of making the pays more fair? Sounds like a weak argument to justify possible exploitation. In my opinion, there's an unfair information asymmetry, as the company knows how much everyone is getting paid. I've worked in government jobs where everyone's pays are easily known, and there is still some (smallish) amount of jealousy bec…

> mandating secrecy That's unnecessary. If you've a gram of experience you should realise it's generally in your own best interests not to tell your colleagues what you're on. > justify possible exploitation. If you don't like the pay, get another job. I don't see where the exploitation comes from. Unless you're suggesting people who don't like the pay can't get a job, can't negotiate and should for some reason there…

> If you've a gram of experience you should realise it's generally in your own best interests not to tell your colleagues what you're on.

Don't patronize me. I'll decide what is in my best interests thanks.

> I don't see where the exploitation comes from.

exploit - 2nd definition from google:

> make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand.

The company is taking advantage of the fact they are the only party that has access to the information on what everyone is paid in order to benefit by paying some people less than others.

The company has a maximum that they will pay but is not telling the workers what that is, and even going so far as to make rules to prevent the workers discussing amongst themselves.

You are arguing that these circumstances are somehow a free market while simultaneously accepting that one party is artificially and unfairly impeding the free flow of information.

A free market requires informed consumers and the company is well aware of that.

The workers should be able to decide for themselves if they agree that "preventing jealousy" is a strong enough argument to justify manipulating the market. If they think it is, then fine, they are free to decide to keep their pay private.

As a party that stands to benefit, it is not up to the company to mandate what is in the best interest of the workers. That is the definition of a conflict of interest.

In my opinion, any rule that attempts to stifle communication between workers is overstepping a company's authority.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#423

Post by steve_adams_86 »

agent008t wrote: post #166
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll second this. I spent roughly 2/3s of my life in a terrible ADD vortex of self loathing, hiding, and genuine depression. My sense of self had diminished to a scary degree towards my thirties because I was convinced I was a broken person but had this job to upkeep, kids to raise, a relationship to maintain. I had given up on understanding what was wrong with me. Then I realized my kid had an attention disorder and…

What changed after you talked to professionals? Is it the same, but now you just know what it is and what to expect, so it feels better? Have you learned how to manage it better? Found some chemicals that can make your experience better?

It's a bit of all of those things, but I think the most helpful thing has been awareness.

When you make mistakes that creep up over and over, it can be easy to feel hopeless and helpless. Over time it's appealing to want to avoid accountability because trying to be aware and engaged to solve the problem is... Understandably difficult and seemingly impossible. You think of things like, hey I know, I'll plan around this happening again or structure my activities such that it can't occur, but the reality of ADD is that intentions often fail and consistency can be incredibly hard to maintain. You have a good month and resume thinking you're fine.

So, pretending things are fine tends to be a common solution that gradually wears at your psyche. Without having a clear answer as to why the hell you keep messing up you figure you're somehow broken or stupid or whatever. You have no excuses. That's hard to face so you try to keep it out of sight and out of mind. I think when people hit this point it becomes very destructive.

So, talking to a professional opens you up to this realization that yep, you're really bad at functioning in a certain way. However, now you know why, and you realize you have tools (sometimes) that others don't. You're not at an advantage, but you're not purely damages goods either. You can work with this. You've made it this far despite disadvantages, and if you're sensible, you can maintain this or even begin to make some headway.

I began the cliche bullet journal thing, regulating my sleep like crazy, drastically reduced smartphone use, and generally began trying to set myself up for success. It has made a huge difference in practice. Simply understanding myself better has put me more at ease, otherwise.

An important parallel I think of in my life and software is setting yourself up for success. I like to try to write code which, even if (when) it really fucks up, the consequence won't be so terrible. I try to set up my days the same way now. Before I just pretended everything was fine until it wasn't, because I had no idea why it wasn't.

Unfortunately my life is really hectic at the moment, but armed with an understanding of how I'm likely to totally blow it, I've managed to do an alright job working from home and being a stay at home dad for quite a while now. I'm pretty sure that without understanding my condition it would be looming over me constantly like it did before. Now I'm prepared, I guess. I don't live in hiding from a part of myself and there's a lot less shame.

That's a verbose answer but hopefully it makes sense! In a way I'm still making sense of it too, and thinking through it is helpful.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#424

Post by tmaly »

ryannevius wrote: post #399

Mindfulness / awareness meditation. Seriously, if there's one thing I could tell my 18 year old self, it would be to learn to meditate and trust in the process. I tried very unsuccessfully to start a few times (guided meditation really isn't my jam), but quickly formed a habit once I found what works for me. It has been seriously life changing and has improved my relationship with myself and others at work and at hom…

Could you expound on what worked for you?

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#426

Post by tuesday20 »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

While I don’t find people boring, there are certain topics that I’d rather stay away from.

For example : In my team of 6, I am the only one who isn’t married and who doesn’t have kids. The other people almost always talk about their kids, show photos, brag about their achievements - after a while, fatigue sets in. Maybe because I can’t relate? I don’t know.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#427

Post by nprateem »

brokenmachine wrote: post #422
nprateem wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mandating secrecy That's unnecessary. If you've a gram of experience you should realise it's generally in your own best interests not to tell your colleagues what you're on. > justify possible exploitation. If you don't like the pay, get another job. I don't see where the exploitation comes from. Unless you're suggesting people who don't like the pay can't get a job, can't negotiate and should for some reason there…

> If you've a gram of experience you should realise it's generally in your own best interests not to tell your colleagues what you're on. Don't patronize me. I'll decide what is in my best interests thanks. > I don't see where the exploitation comes from. exploit - 2nd definition from google: > make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand. The company is taking advantage of the fact they are the…

As you become more senior you'll realise that most companies won't be able to pay everyone high rates, so you'll either have to accept a cap on your pay for fairness or move to another company that doesn't publicise what everyone earns. But as I already wrote: "mandating secrecy - that's unnecessary" since it's in your own best interest.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#428

Post by brokenmachine »

nprateem wrote: post #427
brokenmachine wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you've a gram of experience you should realise it's generally in your own best interests not to tell your colleagues what you're on. Don't patronize me. I'll decide what is in my best interests thanks. > I don't see where the exploitation comes from. exploit - 2nd definition from google: > make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand. The company is taking advantage of the fact they are the…

As you become more senior you'll realise that most companies won't be able to pay everyone high rates, so you'll either have to accept a cap on your pay for fairness or move to another company that doesn't publicise what everyone earns. But as I already wrote: "mandating secrecy - that's unnecessary" since it's in your own best interest.

>As you become more senior you'll realise

Once again, you are being rude and don't patronize me. And don't assume you have some higher level of understanding.

One thing I know, even at my current level of seniority, is that policies like these enable the upper levels to command astronomical pay and conditions while the workers are forced to "negotiate" for small increases.

I know that it will probably be this way regardless because obviously the higher ups are the ones who make the pay decisions.

>you'll either have to accept a cap on your pay for fairness or move to another company that doesn't publicise what everyone earns

I would happily accept a cap on my pay for fairness, and I strongly suspect that at most companies that would improve pays across the board, barring a few upper level people. The alternative is accepting a cap on my pay because of unfairness!

Regardless, I think it's ridiculous for the company to think it is empowered to prevent discussion between colleagues.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#429

Post by paskos1 »

I wish I had acknowledged the fact that I suffer from severe anxiety disorder instead of believing that everybody else was wrong.

For most of my work life (20+ years) I suffered from severe anxiety that led to fits of anger, resentment, self pity.

After facing enough consequences (being fired, quitting in anger) I finally looked at myself hard in the proverbial mirror and asked for help and went to therapy.

My favorite books are from Jocko Willink: - Extreme Ownership - The dichotomy of leadership - Discipline Equals Freedom

Mainly leadership books that I use to be better at leading myself.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#430

Post by nefitty »

tmaly wrote: post #424
ryannevius wrote: post #399

Mindfulness / awareness meditation. Seriously, if there's one thing I could tell my 18 year old self, it would be to learn to meditate and trust in the process. I tried very unsuccessfully to start a few times (guided meditation really isn't my jam), but quickly formed a habit once I found what works for me. It has been seriously life changing and has improved my relationship with myself and others at work and at hom…

Could you expound on what worked for you?

Not parent commenter, but what helped me was to track my daily meditations on a big calendar by marking them with an 'X'. My meditations started at 20 minutes. I would listen to some meditative bowl music or rain sounds and set it to end after 20 minutes. Alarms are startling and could ruin a good session.

I also had a little corner of my house with a pillow to sit on. I would change into comfortable sweatpants and pop in my headphones and start just counting my breaths.

I hope this helps you start!

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