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Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#411

Post by monkeycantype »

akira2501 wrote: post #365
Kon-Peki wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… and the usage? Most highly-paid people have no idea how much privilege this affords them. You wonder why so many businesses are nice to you? It’s because they’ve already looked you up and know you’ve got a high income and are a millionaire. Write a personal check for your next automobile? Sure thing, you can drive it off the lot a few minutes later. They won’t even bother cashing the check for a week or two. Try do…

You wonder why so many businesses are mean to you? It's because they've already looked you up and believe from the data that you won't be a good customer. The dealership can also just call the bank to verify funds. Which would be reasonable and non-discriminatory all without needing a third party and wouldn't involve your salary at any level. Aside from this it's the financing company that cares, not the dealership,…

I know text can be flat, nuance and tone lost that would not be lost in conversation, but I'm confused by your reply Akira. I can't read any endorsement of the system in the comment you're replying to, I read it as agreeing with you in disapproving of unequal treatment

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#412

Post by FactKnower69 »

romwell wrote: post #263
oldgregg wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone else remember when HackerNews had an adventurous libertarian ethos before the school marms infested the place with irrelevant and low vibrational commentary?

>Anyone else remember when HackerNews had an adventurous libertarian ethos before the school marms infested the place with irrelevant and low vibrational commentary? Boy will you not like the "high vibrational" commentary people would have for that adventurous™ libertarianism©* of yours. The "medium vibrational" ones merely wish its pursuers behind bars, the more energetic ones are discussing optimal guillotine blade…

he flagged your post, too adventurous for him :(

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#413

Post by ghaff »

jacobr1 wrote: post #408
ghaff wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the US federal level. It may or may not be illegal at the state level--and is regulated in any case.

It is still illegal in every US state. States can legalize it at the level of their own laws, and they can choose not to enforce federal laws, but that doesn't actually make it legal while federal laws are in place that conflict. A federal agent could choose to walk into any dispensary in a "legal" state and arrest everyone there, and they could be prosecuted in federal court. Yet at a practical level there has been…

I expect you'd have a pretty complicated jurisdictional case if a team of FBI agents were to go into a dispensary in a state where it was legal and round everyone up. And pretty much no sane politician would go anywhere near it. I also wouldn't (hypothetically) travel with the stuff over state boundaries.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#414

Post by UncleMeat »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #383
UncleMeat wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck that. "Oh, aren't you happy we live in a world where the rich are explicitly treated better because they carry around a big sign saying 'I am rich' when interacting with corporations?" No. I am not.

When has that world never existed and when will it cease to exist?

This world has always existed. We can also resist it.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#415

Post by grayhatter »

GTP wrote: post #182
hunter2_ wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your data Is it yours though? The employer could probably argue that it's theirs. Devil's advocate: I think it's widely understood that entities can be transparent with their data if they choose, other than NDA scenarios.

Well, if we're discussing whose data it is the information about how much I pay you , even from a devi's advocate perspective, you can't do better than arguing that this data pertains to both of us. So we should share the property of that data somehow. I don't see how you could argue that that data would be solely the employer's data.

If it has my name on it, it likely belongs to me. The portion that clearly belongs to the company, are the role, the amount, and my initials (maybe an anonymying number would be better?)

They're welcome to do what they want with that, but once it includes the ability to make inferences about me as an individual, more than the company, it becomes my data. I likely have to choose to share it to meet the terms of the emploment contract, but that doesn't change the appropriate ownership.

Try and apply whatever rules you want to IP the company claims to own? Surely the exact details of some trade secret process also belongs to me and I can do whatever I want with it because I need to know it to fulfill the terms of that same contract right? I can sell it to a 3rd party just 'cause right?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#416

Post by Havoc »

warkdarrior wrote: post #208
Havoc wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which makes total sense for consumers as well. Kinda. Often this casual law breaking isn’t entirely victimless even if it benefits both consumer and the startup. I think Schmidt was talking about using content to train models. So artists getting short end of stick. Or Airbnb causing locals getting prices out or whatever. There is certainly some dodgy protectionism happening of the sort you describe but there are al…

As a user of GenAI, I get to create and save drawings in the style of any artist I like, without having to pay the artist $$$$. This is important to me because I like certain styles, but do not care for an original drawing nor have the money to pay for such. And the externalities introduced here are not borne by all of society, but only by a small number of people (How many important artists are there? 10,000? 100,00…

Right so externalities are fine as long as they don’t hit you and it fucks over less than 100k people…

That is…quite a stance. Not quite sure what to even say here.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#417

Post by TeaBrain »

gperkins978 wrote: post #261
zdp7 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The information available via the public record is not as detailed (typically annual salary)and not definitively tied to any person. The Work Number is tied to your SSN and is much more detailed than the public record (each paycheck and a breakdown of different compensation).

In the US, most municipalities will publish each employee's compensation every year. You can literally look them up by name.

That is exactly what they are saying. The public records typically contain annual compensation, not the detailed breakdown available via Work Number.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#418

Post by throw10920 »

Terr_ wrote: post #394
mapt wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a market-first values system, where we rely on the labor market to largely self-regulate given the promises that free market idealogues & corporate actors made us, colluding on wages like this should lead to scorched-earth retribution from the FTC. Not "Oh hey there, you're not allowed to do that, stop that", but "We are diluting your stock by a quarter and distributing it to your workers" type shit.

> given the promises that free market idealogues & corporate actors made us I find it amusing/annoying how many Free™-market boosterism messages are actually contradictory "heads I win, tails you lose" constructs. For example: 1. "Regulations are bad, because left to its own devices the market will be optimally-efficient, once everyone has perfect-information about all the prices and deals other people are making." 2…

I wonder what the name is for the fallacies committed by this comment and grandparent comment. It's this disingenuous "even though nobody in this thread has expressed these two contradictory things, I'm just going to make them up and pretend that an imaginary member of [group that I don't like] said them".

It's like a strawman fallacy did a fusion dance with an ad-hominem. I see it all the time on HN - surely it has a name.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#419

Post by xarope »

oblio wrote: post #274
Kon-Peki wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… and the usage? Most highly-paid people have no idea how much privilege this affords them. You wonder why so many businesses are nice to you? It’s because they’ve already looked you up and know you’ve got a high income and are a millionaire. Write a personal check for your next automobile? Sure thing, you can drive it off the lot a few minutes later. They won’t even bother cashing the check for a week or two. Try do…

> Write a personal check for your next automobile? Personal check? What year is this?!? :-)

Last time I bought a brand new car (~8 years ago?), the dealer told me I couldn't pay more than $X amount, using credit cards, on the car, so I still needed a bank check for the rest (they wouldn't accept a personal check either).

Don't know if things have changed since.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#420

Post by arwhatever »

atrettel wrote: post #115

I have never heard of Pave before, but this just sounds like yet another copy of Equifax's "The Work Number" [1]. Basically, HR at many companies gives your salary and employment history data to Equifax, who then sells access to the information to certain parties with supposed need to access it, including potential and current employers and creditors. This report is likely one of the most invasive consumer files out…

If one is required to sign an agreement to a background check, could this supersede one’s freezing of one’s Work Number?
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