Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#411

Post by irrational » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:28 AM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #341

irrational wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated with 2 bachelors degrees and a masters degree with no debt through scholarships and grants. I have saved nothing for my children’s education. If they want to attend college, it is on them to pay their way just as it was for me. I’ve told them that I will help a bit during their first year. My company matches my retirement savings up to 5%. I save nothing else for retirement. I should have millions of doll…

> If they want to attend college, it is on them to pay their way just as it was for me. You seem to be completely unaware of how wildly the cost of education has increased even over just the past decade, especially for 4-year institutions.

It depends on the university. I just checked and the university I attended is only about $750 more expensive per semester now than it was when I attended 2 decades ago. Not all universities jacked up their tuition.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#412

Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:29 AM UTC

fulafel wrote: post #401

throwaway894345 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s risky about the investment? I’m of the impression that real estate is one of the more stable investments, subprime mortgage scandals notwithstanding.

What isn't? Volatile market value, risks of breakdowns and fires and previously undiscovered structural flaws, fires, natural distasters, etc. It's putting a lot of your eggs in one basket, which in investment terms is same as foregoing diversification, ie taking on a lot of risk for no corresponding increase in returns. Depending on jurisdiction, risk of unfair treatment in a divorce. High transaction costs when cha…

Home process in the US are historically very stable. I would think this is also true in Europe? As for diversification, your house shouldn’t be your only investment. As for fires and natural disasters, this is why insurance exists. Owning a home isn’t for everyone, but I don’t think there’s anything particularly risky about it as far as investments go.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#413

Post by xyzelement » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:31 AM UTC

filleduchaos wrote: post #377

xyzelement wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> As opposed to the current system, which is...not destroying society? I guess people can have different definitions of "destroying society." I grew up in the USSR where you literally lacked physical stuff in your life that people in the rest of the world took for granted decades prior. A huge contributor to that was that people's work was rewarded on a metric other than their productive output, as measured by what…

> I grew up in the USSR where you literally lacked physical stuff in your life that people in the rest of the world took for granted decades prior. Define "rest of the world" because for the time period when the USSR was in existence, my part of the world was either actively being colonised or foundering in the neocolonialist wake of independence. And that's the crux of it, isn't it? The world's foremost capitalist s…

Ma'am, this is a a Wendy's. the question was whether people should be rewarded by the value of their output to which the answer is obviously yes.

I am not sure the crazy town you are taking this to. But in case it somehow helps you understand - the USSR was horrible to its own people and to neighboring countries, forced labor and all, and still wasn't able to provide basic shit to anyone but the party elite.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#414

Post by fulafel » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:41 AM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #412

fulafel wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What isn't? Volatile market value, risks of breakdowns and fires and previously undiscovered structural flaws, fires, natural distasters, etc. It's putting a lot of your eggs in one basket, which in investment terms is same as foregoing diversification, ie taking on a lot of risk for no corresponding increase in returns. Depending on jurisdiction, risk of unfair treatment in a divorce. High transaction costs when cha…

Home process in the US are historically very stable. I would think this is also true in Europe? As for diversification, your house shouldn’t be your only investment. As for fires and natural disasters, this is why insurance exists. Owning a home isn’t for everyone, but I don’t think there’s anything particularly risky about it as far as investments go.

Are you looking at home prices as aggregate? It will naturally seem a lot more stable then since you are then looking at what you'd have if you had diversification! As for individual cases of housing, I think we've recently seen enough discussion of CA volatility to conclude that at least big cities have a lot of volatility in individual housing units.

(Of course this all depends on the alternative too: renting regulations vary widely over the world in how strong the position of the occupants is wrt rent increases and landlord initiated termination)

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#415

Post by alkonaut » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:46 AM UTC

offby37years wrote: post #120

alkonaut wrote: post #55

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

As a software engineer your leverage should be higher than near any other profession. This is why SV engineers are paid handsomely. Your productive output eclipses that of any profession without force multipliers. Your income should not be based on input (risk, comfort), but rather your output (scale, value).

It’s based on value but if my value is X and there are many developers who can do my job for my salary Y then it’s not X but Y that’s the pay.

There is a scarcity of talent here too but in order to take advantage of it you typically have to actively seek higher pay. I just don’t want to switch jobs, it’s not that I don’t want higher pay.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#416

Post by ilikeerp » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:47 AM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #225

alkonaut wrote: post #55

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

You are taking a risk. The risk is that you assume your government will be able to provide you with a comfortable life even when you can no longer work. And when the time comes for your children to get higher education and retire themselves eventually you hope the government will also be there to step in. It works, until it doesn't. In America you can compensate yourself for this risk by simply getting a job where yo…

I bet you've never left your own country for more than a week to visit Mexico.... you're all theory and it's all nonsense.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#417

Post by benjaminl » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:48 AM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #357

strombofulous wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40%?! Where do you live? The effective federal income tax at 100k is 22.75%. I don't think any state has a 17.25% effective income tax, certainly not if you only earn 100k.

If you're making 100K in California, your marginal tax rate is: - Federal: 24% - State: 9.3% - FICA: 7.65% (6.2% social security, 1.45% medicare) - SDI: 1% This gets you to 42%. Your employer matches the FICA payments too, so that's closer to 50% of your take-home pay. Once you make enough to pay off the regressive FICA taxes ($142K) you get bumped back down to "just" the mid-high 30% range briefly, until you hit $16…

Don’t forget the 10.25% sales tax. This puts the combined marginal tax rate at 59.85%. (24 + 9.3 + 7.65 + 7.65 + 1 + 10.25)

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#418

Post by alkonaut » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:48 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #150

alkonaut wrote: post #55

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

Well if your company is doing well then someone is getting rich. Could be management, CEO, investors or whoever else. Sure you may be okay with it, but clearly not everyone is (hence the question).

At the very top of the parent orgs’ parent org is Warren Buffett, so I guess it’s him!

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#419

Post by alkonaut » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:50 AM UTC

aantix wrote: post #277

alkonaut wrote: post #55

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

>I have worked 20 years in the same job Very different. I cannot imagine staying anymore more than two years - aren't you bored?

Switching jobs I’d be doing the same thing more than if staying. That’s the thing. I have even switched occasionally but switched back out of boredom. I tried. I’m in a position where the job is interesting (I find most work isn’t - I’d never want to work in a place making some Crud app or web service).

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#420

Post by novok » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:51 AM UTC

tolbish wrote: post #172

novok wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The american average vacation time is not the reality at tech firms. I easily get 1 month or more of vacation working at a large one. Same with 3-6mo+parental leave being very common along with fairly decent healthcare because your employed by a wealthy company. Things that are not good for the average american is not the reality for the average big-tech software engineer and you have to compare apples to apples.

The average among technical workers is around 15 days/year according to the BLS. Where are you getting your data from?

I talk to others who work at big tech firms.

That survey probably also includes such stars as tata, infosys, random IT firms and places you wouldn't call SV style software. Yes, you shouldn't move from europe to work at such places. What everyone is implying is working in SV or FANG tier places.