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Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

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Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#411

Post by simopaa »

ookie wrote: post #321
jstanley wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the prospect of DApps with the client-side code served out of IPFS, and the backend on Ethereum.

Yeah, I completely agree. There are already some services in this space trying to combat filter bubbles and walled gardens, Akasha [ https://akasha.world/ ] for social networks, DNN Media [ http://dnn.media/ ] for news and Lemon Email [ https://ipfs.io/ipns/dapp.lemon.email/#/ ] (dApp and the full beta version) for email system. The last one is completely in line of what you're talking about. I like the approach thro…

Set up Akasha out of interest and it does seem really promising. Thanks for the tip!

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#412

Post by dontchooseanick »

That's extreme for most but :

1. I don't talk to Google and Facebook - I mean, really, litteraly http://sling.migniot.com/index.html?filter=no_.*sh

2. A decade without Google Search and DuckDuckgo instead - sometimes I have to use !g at work

3. I have rooted phones without a Google account - but I know no single other person who does it

And the corrolaries :

- I get a lot less ads for free

- I have to talk again to Google from time to time, for captcha purposes

- I have real-life friends who call me - like in "phone-call", they know I have no Fb, no Insta', no Pinter', no Google, no Snap'

- From Google and Fb's standpoints I'm like a blackhole: I don't leave intentional traces, opinions, preferences but I'm as traceable as a dead pixel on a uniform background.

I left this comment because I feel like a Unicorn : I do this nearly as a hobby and to prove that "It's still possible" - but it takes a BC in computer science and constant fighting :

Nobody does that

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#413

Post by sumeno »

kakarot wrote: post #393
sumeno wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an advocate for anything that results in even more people bugging me to do "computer stuff" for them

I've read all of your comments in my subthread and I agree with everything you've said. Especially this! It was immediately what came to mind but I hit my post count. This problem of getting people to care about alternatives to Facebook seems to be something you've given a lot of thought as well. Mind if I ask what field you work in?

I work at Google (with the standard disclaimer that my opinions are my own), with a history in the financial and defense industries. Nothing particularly related to Facebook, but I'm sympathetic to the concerns around Facebook. I just think HN tends to miss the forest for the trees when discussing alternatives

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#414

Post by dandelion_lover »

ctrlc-root wrote: post #386
staticelf wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds incredible time consuming and very frustrating. How do you manage to stay so hostile against everything around you? Do you never wake up and just feel depressed about the state of things? Ever wanted to just say fuck it and create a facebook account?

I'm not the person you replied to but I can tell you what my perspective is. I haven't implemented all the measures he mentions yet but I'm working towards all of them and more. It is time consuming but it doesn't feel frustrating. It gives me the peace of mind that I still own my life and am not dependent on companies like Google or Amazon to live the life I want to live. I do occasionally feel depressed about the s…

>I did have a Facebook account for about 6 months in high school before I deleted it and I've never felt the urge to re-activate it (afaik accounts are never permanently deleted).

Yes, you can permanently delete your Facebook account

http://www.wikihow.com/Permanently-Delete-a-Facebook-Account via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1291871

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#415

Post by matonias »

ctrlc-root wrote: post #386
staticelf wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds incredible time consuming and very frustrating. How do you manage to stay so hostile against everything around you? Do you never wake up and just feel depressed about the state of things? Ever wanted to just say fuck it and create a facebook account?

I'm not the person you replied to but I can tell you what my perspective is. I haven't implemented all the measures he mentions yet but I'm working towards all of them and more. It is time consuming but it doesn't feel frustrating. It gives me the peace of mind that I still own my life and am not dependent on companies like Google or Amazon to live the life I want to live. I do occasionally feel depressed about the s…

> That most people around me are subsidizing their lives (free storage, free email, 2-day shipping, easy home automation, etc) in exchange for their privacy and independence doesn't really factor into my own decision.

This is exactly what I am thinking and doing all the time. I have one problem however, that is, convincing my friends. How do I do this? Any idea?

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#416

Post by odbol_ »

mysterypie wrote: post #71
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like there's a typo in your first sentence. I could sort of figure out what you meant, but it took a bit of digging. EDIT: Never mind, I was straight-up wrong. Sorry!

You mean the following sentence? > Make your website of record your website. I don't see a typo (and your comment is 3 minutes more recent than his, so I don't think he made any corrections). Maybe "record" is throwing you off? What he means is that "Your official or authoritative website (i.e., website of record, like owner of record) should belong to and be controlled by you." Edit: If you're saying that the senten…

Ah, much better way of phrasing it. Thanks

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#417

Post by kakarot »

sumeno wrote: post #413
kakarot wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read all of your comments in my subthread and I agree with everything you've said. Especially this! It was immediately what came to mind but I hit my post count. This problem of getting people to care about alternatives to Facebook seems to be something you've given a lot of thought as well. Mind if I ask what field you work in?

I work at Google (with the standard disclaimer that my opinions are my own), with a history in the financial and defense industries. Nothing particularly related to Facebook, but I'm sympathetic to the concerns around Facebook. I just think HN tends to miss the forest for the trees when discussing alternatives

Understandably so, after all HN is its own little echo chamber. Technophobia is a real problem and we can't just tell people to "get over it" and join the rest of us, who have likely spent our entire lives working with computers for hours a day.

And asking someone to rely on their geek friend for deployment, education and support instead of relying on a stable platform like Facebook is just silly. Unless we can provide a similar, stable and feature-packed platform then there is just no perceptible incentive for people to make the switch.

I mean heck, Google couldn't even do it.

I think the problem needs to be attacked from multiple vectors. Simply building a technologically superior platform with better privacy control isn't enough. There needs to be a real shift in understanding about the dangers of big social media.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#418

Post by mirimir »

kakarot wrote: post #401
mirimir wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Facebook has an insidious shadow-ban system. Its goal is showing people what they like, and not what they don't like. So they're happy Facebook users, seeing happy Facebook ads.

Some suggest it shows a healthy balance of things users like and dislike. That addicting loop of frustration and redemption we often find in the mobile gaming sphere. Not to mention it does this using machine learning techniques to get the timing down juuuust right. Something something something beauty without pain. I think my posts were well beyond the "frustrating but redeemable" category, because I had a purposefu…

> ... I had a purposeful tendency to discuss abrasive subjects in order to elicit strong reactions.

That sounds a little like trolling, but I get that you meant it as educational. Maybe a distinction that simple machines don't make.

> ... anonymous conversation app that pairs users and groups together with various conversation starters ...

And that sounds a little like Usenet, or discussion forums. Except that group selection and migration are totally voluntary. In my experience, unless there's moderation, you eventually get trolling wars. Which seem like harassment, to people who don't want to (and/or don't know how to) play those games. And everyone but the trolls eventually leaves.

If you could build an app that facilitated intense discussion, and prevented trolling and harassment, that would be very cool. Forcing anonymity would largely prevent harassment, because anyone who felt harassed could just move to a new persona. And there would be no meatspace impact.

Did you ever go on talk.masked? It used to be a main branch off core.onion (Tor onion services).

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#419

Post by monk_e_boy »

rdiddly wrote: post #260
monk_e_boy wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not use another single sign on service? Look. I'm not an idiot. I write open source. I love free and open web. Google login works. We use use Gmail - it works. We use google classroom - it just works. Most websites offer Google Login - it just works. When you have 30 students and you waste 2 minutes logging into a website -- that is 2 x 30 == 60 minutes of student learning lost. Little things like that add up.

It's not 60 minutes of learning, it's 2 minutes of learning. 2 minutes went by. You're not running a factory so you don't need to use factory-style productivity metrics. Anyway what's the hurry? What could be so crucial that not a minute can be spared? Maybe this is why school is uninspiring? The feeling of being on a breakneck treadmill, never having time for anything? Education shouldn't be about quantity, it's abo…

School is a funny old place. I'm struggling to be honest because I'm a hacker at heart and think like you.

But being observed by senior management, they would see students not learning. You could expect extremely close scrutiny for the next few lessons. To be put on special measures. Not quite a sack-able offence, but ....

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#420

Post by mixmastamyk »

kakarot wrote: post #417
sumeno wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at Google (with the standard disclaimer that my opinions are my own), with a history in the financial and defense industries. Nothing particularly related to Facebook, but I'm sympathetic to the concerns around Facebook. I just think HN tends to miss the forest for the trees when discussing alternatives

Understandably so, after all HN is its own little echo chamber. Technophobia is a real problem and we can't just tell people to "get over it" and join the rest of us, who have likely spent our entire lives working with computers for hours a day. And asking someone to rely on their geek friend for deployment, education and support instead of relying on a stable platform like Facebook is just silly. Unless we can provi…

You've enlarged the scope of my comment tenfold, it was that you could ask a friend to help register a domain or move it, that might happen once or twice a decade.
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