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Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

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Re: Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

#401
post #126

There is only one good answer to that, you should use what you already know, if you build an MVP it's to deliver a product, it's not meant to spend 2-3x more time to learn new tech.

This is the most common advice around these parts, but it seems woefully misguided to me.

The “only good answer” if there is just the one is that you should use whatever fits the requirements. If those requirements involve you getting to market as fast as possible in a highly generic domain (ie building a standard website) where the tools you know work just as well as others and you’re not worried about various other factors then sure, go with what you know and can churn out the fastest.

But though many projects may fit this mold they are by no means universal requirements, and your requirements may very well dictate the best path is for you learn new tech (for instance if you usually do .NET stuff but are building a a ML service on a device or something). Sometimes there are better ways to accomplish things than what you already know and you’ll indeed be better served by learning them. If you’re just a hammer looking at everything as a nail because you can bang on it the fastest you’ll stub your (and probably others’) thumbs one way or the other.

Not to mention learning new tech is often its own reward regardless of the much less certain fate of a given MVP. At the very least you'll have another tool in the toolkit to assess future project requirements, rather than blindly attacking everything w/ a hammer.

Re: Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

#403

Definitely old schools. I am building a MVP right now(kinda building my parachute while jumping off the plane)and I went with Django. And here is why. 1. Very vibrant community of devs and time-tested open-source libraries.If you want a multi-tenancy there is a library for that. IF you want stripe integration there is one for that. If you want "fully built out" services, then we have a plethora of free and paid templ…

Did a big migration from Flask to Django for my main side project for all of these reasons earlier this year.

I love Django. It's criminally underrated.

Side project if anyone's interested in peeping it: https://www.fpgajobs.com

Re: Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

#404
I’ve been working on a side project that aims to provide a really simple UX to spin up full-stack web apps with CI and scalable infra by default. The idea is that you would simply enter a domain name you want to purchase and then the tool would do the following:

1. Purchase the domain name using AWS Route53 (perhaps you’d need to setup an IAM role for the website to access your pre existing AWS acct)

2. Setup frontend, API, and CDK infra repos. All in TypeScript.

3. Frontend react, backend Api gateway backed by lambda functions. Have a graphql endpoint that talks to an Amazon auroradb. CI for backend and frontend is defined by a CDK package that is also deployed to the AWS account that also sets up the networking and database for you.

4. Have a basic layer of application code for setting up user authentication and storing user data in the aurora db.

Basically my idea is it kinda sucks that everyone has to do all of this setup yourself if you want to start a new project. Or you have to rely on no-code tools like Squarespace etc which may not be what most engineers are looking for. Having something that can go from simply entering the domain name you want to scaffolding out a fully functional full stack web app with CI and serverless infra defined by code that can scale from day 1 seems both incredibly useful and doable.

Curious to hear other people’s thoughts on this!

Re: Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

#405
post #276

Go & Postgres on the backend, running on a baremetal server. Because this is actually capable of handling a decent workload for really cheap compared to cloud. There's a few tricky bits to do with logs and reporting, but the benefits outweigh the pain. Vue on the frontend. Last time I used BootstrapVue and it worked well. I'd want to re-evaluate that decision next time, have a look at some of the newcomers. I'm aware…

This is the correct answer. It's quite shocking how many Django and Laravel answers there are in this thread. Performance and type safety appear to be completely irrelevant to HN. You should take a look at Vite ( https://vitejs.dev/ ) for a Vue development environment, if you haven't already.

> This is the correct answer. It's quite shocking how many Django and Laravel answers there are in this thread. Performance and type safety appear to be completely irrelevant to HN.

I was wondering about that actually.

Writing code in Python, Rails, etc is painful. A stupidly high percentage of the "unit tests" aren't testing logic at all, they're simply ensuring that incorrect types are handled properly.

And then I see comments like "well, my MVP can run very cheaply, a $100/m DO droplet" and wonder what on earth they are talking about - I had a $5/m DO droplet handling around 50k-60k concurrent TCP (not HTTP) connections, all serving data without any of the connecting devices timing out.

The devspeed differential between things like C#/Java/Go and Python/PHP/Ruby is large only at the very beginning of your project. When you're adding new features in every day, six months into the project, you're almost definitely going to be faster in some statically typed compiled language.

Seriously, using Django is likely to shave a week or so off the time; if that week matters so much then your expected lifetime for the product is what? Two weeks? Three?

I get it, in that if your MVP is timeboxed to (say) two weeks to alpha, then, yeah, those things that shave a week off make sense. But if your MVP is timeboxed to two weeks:

a) Tt's unlikely to be of much value to the consumer, b) Your competitors will appear two weeks after you first launch anyway.

I want to do a new product, and when judging each product idea I have, the largest issue is always finding the largest amount of value I can create/deliver in a particular timeframe (say, 3 months f/time).

If the value the product is providing can be done in a week with Rails, then there's not much motivation for me to develop that product - everyone with a week of leave or a month of weekends is going to have a clone out before I can even learn marketing.

If it's going to take 3 months regardless of the language, I have at least 3 months to build up a userbase, and do product refinement and fit.

Re: Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

#406

Well that depends a bit on what the MVP needs to be. Anything web related I'm probably going the Elixir/Phoenix route. I'm no web dev, but this combination makes me actually kind of like doing web-things with how batteries included it is, and the tools it provides to really jump start a project. Then I'd host it "old schoolish" in a VPS or similar since that's what I know best. Might consider being fancy and investig…

Totally agree! For almost all web-based MVPs the PETAL Stack (Phoenix with LiveView & TailwindCSS) deployed to FREE Fly.io is an epic choice for both response times, realtime features, dev speed (time to market). We're currently building our MVP with it and it's fully Open Source so anyone can learn from our journey: https://github.com/dwyl/mvp

Never heard of phoenix but sounds interesting. What's the persistence layer of the stack?

Re: Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

#407

The number of Elixir/Erlang backend suggestions seems over-represented. Not even Phoenix, just a blanket language suggestion. This leads me to believe that many posts are throwing out their newest stack-fad they imagine would be good for an application. I wouldn't take too much stock in the frequency of keywords here.

After working on a Phoenix project and using LiveView and Tailwind it just makes my brain hurt to think of using anything else. I expect Phoenix is over-represented here because Hacker News tends to attract the smart set.

Re: Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

#408

Nothing really beats Rails. Use something like Jumpstart (jumpstartrails.com) and Avo ( https://avohq.io ) and you scaffold a full consumer-ready app in literally a few hours. The thing that bugs me the most with Next.JS and the whole JAMStack movement is that, yeah, you get from "git clone" to deployed on Vercel in two minutes, but if you need to create real app features like a sturdy admin, accounts, authorization,…

Thanks for making Avo! I'd been building something similar in the application I'm currently working on and it was nice to have something that already figured out much of the hard stuff to replace my shitty implementation.

Great to hear! Let me know if you run into issues.

Re: Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree! For almost all web-based MVPs the PETAL Stack (Phoenix with LiveView & TailwindCSS) deployed to FREE Fly.io is an epic choice for both response times, realtime features, dev speed (time to market). We're currently building our MVP with it and it's fully Open Source so anyone can learn from our journey: https://github.com/dwyl/mvp

Never heard of phoenix but sounds interesting. What's the persistence layer of the stack?

Typically Postgres

Re: Ask HN: What would be your stack if you are building an MVP today?

#410
post #36

I'm building an MVP solo. Rust for the core application, Elixir for the backend, frontend, API, data layer. Javascript is pretty much non-existent, all client-side interactivity is done by LiveView. Packaged into a podman container and deployed to a Hetzner dedicated server. Storage on PostgreSQL, probably the only thing I would rather not have to manage, but honestly single node is perfectly fine for an MVP. Provisi…

I love Rust and program in it a lot...but I would never use it for an MVP Rust is the tool you use when you are done prototyping, not when you are just beginning

Depends what you're prototyping. Rust is hard to beat for prototyping an interpreter, for example.
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