Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 410 posts

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#401

Post by wolverine876 »

jacquesm wrote: post #76
mellavora wrote: post #65

What's driving me crazy about Firefox is that every time they release a new version, whatever version I am running on my machine stops working-- it refuses to load any new page or to refresh any existing page. So I have to open Safari and download and install the latest release. Which means I can never count on Firefox working. Frustrating. osx, if that helps anyone suggest a fix.

I'm a very long time die-hard Firefox user, the only reason I even have Chrome on my system is because I built an application that requires WebMIDI, which Firefox still refuses to support. But I'm starting to believe that the browser wars have been conclusively lost and it's time to throw in the towel. Losing a whole morning on this trick is really pissing me off, I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff and if not for…

Wouldn't you just have different problems with Chrome?

> Browsers are mission critical, you don't just fuck around with the networking settings on a timed change.

Is that what they did? I thought the problem was a server-side change by a Mozilla vendor. And if they did, how else does Firefox update networking? How does Google do it with Chrome?

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#402

Post by dragonwriter »

jacquesm wrote: post #287
bipson wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the alternative is running a system with a ton of outdated software, with known bugs and active exploits while casually surfing the "oh-so-cosy-and-entirely-harmless" WWW... The goal is not to ostracize automatic updates, but to have faster fixes. Or to separate security updates from feature updates, but I think this ship has long sailed for modern browsers.

> Or to separate security updates from feature updates, but I think this ship has long sailed for modern browsers. That would be my preferred solution. But yes, as you say, that ship has sailed. No reason why it couldn't sail back though.

> No reason why it couldn't sail back though.

Multiplying the number of parallel maintenance tracks and associated support costs is not “no reason”.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#403

Post by rcxdude »

josteink wrote: post #369
Vinnl wrote: post #183

Updates on the bug: > We have other services with the same type of load balancer in front of it and we currently suspect it is an HTTP/3 load balancing problem. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1749908#c17 > Our current suspicion is that Google Cloud Load Balancer (or a similar CloudFlare service) that fronts one of our own servers got an update that triggers an existing HTTP3 bug. Telemetry was first imp…

So for Firefox to even start , Mozilla implicitly depends on Google now. Wow. Couldn’t they have used any other cloud provider? I mean, cmon!

No, it's not required to start. Without the bug firefox starts up just fine (in fact, if google's servers were to drop off the internet, the problem would also go away). The problem is the bug hangs all network communication when it's triggered.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#404

Post by arepublicadoceu »

wolverine876 wrote: post #400
zelphirkalt wrote: post #199

Aaaand another bunch of users lost to Chrome ... I've only spoken with 2 other people and they were not as lucky as me to have read about the fix on this very comment page, so they were "forced" to use Chrome/ium to be able to access the web. Not sure they will switch back to Firefox. I am surely not switching to Chromium based browsers, but it is time again for me to consider switching to Icecat or so instead after…

> Aaaand another bunch of users lost to Chrome ... If that's true, it's good news for Firefox. If that's all it takes to lose 0.05% of users, then when Chrome has a bug and loses 0.05% of users to Firefox, there will be a large net gain.

I would be extremely surprised if 0.05% of Chrome users are aware that Firefox exist and/or that it should be an option instead of Edge.

At this point a developed a love/hate relationship with Firefox.

It’s the only browser I use, but you need to be delusional to not see that you’re in a sinking ship and everyday you find a new hole and you see more water coming in.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#405

Post by wolverine876 »

arepublicadoceu wrote: post #404
wolverine876 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aaaand another bunch of users lost to Chrome ... If that's true, it's good news for Firefox. If that's all it takes to lose 0.05% of users, then when Chrome has a bug and loses 0.05% of users to Firefox, there will be a large net gain.

I would be extremely surprised if 0.05% of Chrome users are aware that Firefox exist and/or that it should be an option instead of Edge. At this point a developed a love/hate relationship with Firefox. It’s the only browser I use, but you need to be delusional to not see that you’re in a sinking ship and everyday you find a new hole and you see more water coming in.

I have to wonder why on this day on HN, people suddenly want to spread this narrative. Perhaps success or failure depends partly on perception, whether you believe you will succeed.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#406

Post by tda »

jacquesm wrote: post #143
tda wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thankful to work in a team. As my IT dept has a habit of breaking stuff with AV and other crap-ware, I already asked if anyone else was having problems with Firefox after 5 minutes of trying to figure out what was wrong, after which someone pointed me to this thread

Unfortunately, with work-from-home that puts me in isolation. I did try it with Chrome and that worked so it at least clearly was a FF issue but I never ever counted on features with embargo dates. That totally messes up my inbound QA on new FF releases because that means that no matter how much I test a browser in my sandbox by the time the automatic update propagates to the machine I work on I can still get hosed.…

I also work from home; I just asked around in the general chat.

As I instinctively was already blaming out IT dept for breaking Firefox for some security theater reason I was glad I found the real issue quickly, otherwise I might just have accidentally dropped my laptop out the window

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#407

Post by captainmuon »

ya_throw wrote: post #192
captainmuon wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you keep the browser ultra modular, I think it can work. You need to have one component for layout, one for css, one for the DOM, and you can use external libraries for media playback, javascript, networking, and so on. I think a decent layout or CSS library would be useful outside of a web browser, too. Then I would also only focus on the subset of websites that are "documents", not "apps". If I could decide, HTM…

Sounds like a lot of work for moving lightly-formatted text files around. Also, essentially no-one wants it. What people want (whether they know it or not) is the latest shiny to keep themselves distracted.

I don't know a single non-technical person who doesn't complain about web browsers being slow. Part of the problem is that they don't understand the differences between computers and go for the cheapest PC or tablet, but most of it is bloat.

We tried to introduce office 365 company wide for collaboration, but we had a whole plant of 150 employees "mutiny" because they refused to use any of the office web apps because they were too slow.

This slowness is not a fundamental problem, but incidental. The layout calculations of even the most complex websites could be solved by a 10 years old computer instantly. The rendering can be done by a GPU without sweat. Look at how many polygons and shaders games had 10 years ago.

And note I'm not talking about "lightly formatted text files", but 90% of all web sites. News sites, Youtube, Reddit, .... What I'm excluding is Gmail, Office365, anything that uses Vibration, NFC, WebMidi, and other boutiqe features (you could probably add those back as libraries if you need them later). I'd argue that not supporting "apps" is a feature - you'd have to explicity allow them and they'd run in a sandboxed tab.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#408

Post by asteroidbelt »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #197
asteroidbelt wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is the largest financial supporters in Firefox, they buy Firefox search bar. If they wanted to destroy Firefox, they’d already do it by simply cutting that revenue stream.

They are the amd to my intel, their inability to overthrow me, completes monopoly-me.

There's enough Chrome alternatives to be considered "amd to my intel": Chrome based browsers like Brave, and Safari.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#409

Post by asteroidbelt »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #214
asteroidbelt wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is the largest financial supporters in Firefox, they buy Firefox search bar. If they wanted to destroy Firefox, they’d already do it by simply cutting that revenue stream.

Or some other search engine would become their revenue stream, like when Yahoo was the default search. Without Google bidding their revenue would likely drop, but it wouldn't disappear.

True. But revenue would be significantly smaller (other engines cannot afford pay high per click, and lack of competition drives the price per click down), and revenue is already barely enough to cover Mozilla needs (see recent staff cuts).

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#410

Post by asteroidbelt »

a5aAqU wrote: post #392
asteroidbelt wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is the largest financial supporters in Firefox, they buy Firefox search bar. If they wanted to destroy Firefox, they’d already do it by simply cutting that revenue stream.

They can't do it like that directly, but they have been undercutting Firefox for years. For a long time when you searched Google from Firefox it would tell you to download Chrome.

> They can't do it like that directly

Why?

Post reply on HN