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Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

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Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#401
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty interesting to contrast OP's experience with this recent /r/bestof that describes in detail why things might be the way you're describing: https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/rkru22/uloosesignif...

Direct link https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rkk9qg/im_a_new_s... for everyone else having a hard time figuring out how to find the actual comment. Really worth a read and absolutely puts OPs story into perspective.

odd that most in this thread think this story is fiction, some even suggest it might be a marketing ploy to peddle a book. Is really the whole world like this or is there a difference depending on jurisdiction (e.g. comments reflect values of US?).

While I can't prove a negative, this story is highly plausible in Europe where legal/HR will be on your ass and even fire the CEO if it turns out they had knowledge.

In 2020 I was in a similar situation with an IoT "startup" (70 people) in Austria where some of the original founding team worked their employees in a brutal manner (made fun of the engineering providers that invented the product in a "low-cost" neighboring country, and being total f-heads all around).

My superior even made fun of one intern for "stuttering" in front of the whole team, scolding him for "sloppy thinking" and being "too slow in his head" (fact was he wasn't used to speaking English, was a bit insecure because he was still very young). People regularly cried.

That was just the internal stuff. In my first weekend in this firm I was given new tasks on Friday 16:00 to finish until Monday 08:00 (tasks so complex that it would normally take a whole week to finish and required multiple rounds of input). I had no free weekend in my first month and 12/hrs per day was the norm. In my first client meeting 2 days into the job I learned that my company lost all their data 3 months before ... genuinely curious I started probing the client to get a better picture of how we were perceived. The client talked himself into such a rage that he ended up screaming at me (and a day later apologizing for doing so).

2 weeks after I joined, I wrote a long letter to HR with a list of all the communication that happened, e.g. who said what to me when, and even smtp headers of communication received in an appendix. After the CEO asked me to lie on a revenue forecast that served as input to the business plan (and where I was told "to make up numbers" !!) I looped in the Holding company into my ongoing conversation with HR (the holding was where my employer got all their funding and who would be the audience for that pitch in the presentation/Excel I was asked to make).

It was the first time that I ended up (literally) screaming with my own superior in a meeting for abusing his own team, and spelling out immediately why his behavior was abuse. 2/3 of my team left that very month since they were fed up and I like to think it was me that spelled out for everyone what they already knew but hadn't ever thought to verbalize themselves.

I also handed in my resignation a week afterwards since it looked like some people would be able to get away with it. The Holding Company brought in an external consulting / auditing team and fired the CEO and 2 others. Alas ... not for mistreating or overworking employees but for lying on the business plan. This October (2 quarters later) the same company filed for bankruptcy.

I don't know if I would be able to bring down an equally rotten place in a different jurisdiction. YMMV sadly and I am sure many people try in other places but all they ever achieve is that those responsible get a "stern warning". But I totally believe the linked article to be plausible

EDIT: rediability

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#402
post #37

> So I reach out to the manager and ask what is going on. This is a simple task, I said. Why does it take an entire quarter for your team to deliver? He doesn't have an answer. Your simple task, which you think would only take a few days to implement, is probably one request in a long queue of requests that team is dealing with. That means they won't be able to start on it for a long time. That team probably set up t…

> I know for sure that it's possible to be highly productive at a large company with a lot of bureaucracy -- but I also know for sure that new employees who try to bypass process and question the priorities of other teams, before they learn the ropes and build credibility and trust with other people, do not succeed.

The problem is that "learning the ropes" in a big org is often just an interminable slog of suffering from lack of information, dead-end rabbit-holes, and dealing with assholes. One is often forced to choose between being a doormat or being offensively aggressive with little ground in between.

In the context of an acquisition, especially, staff on both sides will be in fear of losing their jobs, status, or comfort-zone. There will automatically be barriers put up against change whether folks are conscious of it or not.

The OP just needs to talk to a human being.

It's his responsibility to reach out and find one. In my experience, the thing about big-company process is that YOU HAVE TO go around it to communicate. You have to talk things out with the RIGHT people in advance, come up with a plan in cooperation with them, have them collaborate by getting things warmed up on their side. After all that the stupid meetings and "approvals" are just formalities. In fact, you can tell when this is the case when project decisions are handled with almost parliamentary procedures. There's no room for discussion and thinking things through in such meetings-- everything, EVERYTHING, has to be worked out in advance through side-channels.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#403
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a large gradient between 'fucking around in production' and crippling big corporate process. Maybe the big tech companies all have the perfect amount of process, but much of the process and ceremony at other big companies I've seen is simply in place to keep the lowest common developer employed. Heck, people complain about excessive process on this very site all the time. On other nitpick is that startups li…

> On other nitpick is that startups live and die with automation by their lean nature. They have fewer resources and must automate everything they can. It's built into startups mindset. I am at a medium sized company. We acquired a startup. They did not "live and die with automation", instead they contracted out the production operations. A dozen customers, all on snowflake systems which were constantly tweaked direc…

> A dozen customers, all on snowflake systems which were constantly tweaked directly in prod with no documentation or audit process.

I've directly seen this at all sizes of companies. I worked at a billion+ revenue company and watched my boss edit stored procedures directly on production (for way more than a dozen customers). I ended up encrypting them in prod to force him through the build process I made.

The point is that there is wild west going on everywhere, and the size of the company is only one factor. There are startups with great engineering and big companies with terrible engineering. It's just the state of software right now.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#404

Tell me you never ran a large code base in production, without telling me. Past a certain point there are no "simple code changes" anymore. Automation and functional QA needs to ensure zero regressions, internal and external docs need to be considered, it all needs to be bundled in with many other code changes (feature and fixes), etc. There is no shortcut. Even FB had to dial back their "break shit in prod" mantra.…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#405
post #37

> So I reach out to the manager and ask what is going on. This is a simple task, I said. Why does it take an entire quarter for your team to deliver? He doesn't have an answer. Your simple task, which you think would only take a few days to implement, is probably one request in a long queue of requests that team is dealing with. That means they won't be able to start on it for a long time. That team probably set up t…

The amount of people on HN nowadays that are okay with getting nothing useful done is striking. Startup guy, you don't have to accept being part of a bloated hierarchy that rewards politics more than good decision-making. You could check out at the corpo job and start prototyping your own startup ideas. Or join another early stage startup where your performance matters. I'll be starting one soon - let's keep in touch…

Totally agree. Would love to hear more about what you're thinking about. Didn't see your contact info listed. How can we keep in touch?

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#406
This is how it almost always is.

It's the bureaucratic horror of large companies (for me, even HP when it was a Fortune 20 company, had it's irritations) that drove me to entrepreneurship. Being bought always means you have to return to that in some ways.

Here's the trick: plan for your "exit from your exit" when you are planning your current startup. I sold my recent company in 2018 and we already had plans for our next startup long before our exit appeared on the horizon. Thus we had our attorneys write our acquisition contract such that nothing in our future plans would be outside of the SPECIFIC purchase contract would ever be included or be on the table. At the same time we've used our post-tax purchase revenue, salaries, bonuses and commissions to provide seed money and investment in our next ventures.

The key thing: we "knew", and still know, we have multiple startups in us. Some are "singles", some are "doubles" and we have only one that might be a "home run". But all are on the table.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#407
I worked for a company for a decade that grew through acquisition. Their business model was slow moving, risk averse, and lean staff. And they made a ton of money.

They bought troubled companies that were agile, over-staffed, and most importantly unprofitable and our job was to integrate them and then gut the staff to bare bones. Typically those unprofitable companies were profitable within 12 months. The existing staff at these acquisitions hated it because they had only ever known their unsustainable unprofitable way of doing things.

"I used to call X and he could do this right away".

"Interesting. Is that why your company was bleeding money and the owners came to us begging to have someone buy their sinking ship?"

You were bought. If you don't like the new company, you can leave. You can try to tilt at windmills, or you can stay and open your mind and maybe you will learn the real reason things work the way they do at the new company. Finally, maybe you are right about all of this. I would quit and start your own company and crush your current employer's inefficiency in the market.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#408
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your app isn't quite compatible with their infrastructure, the right move is probably to modify your app, not ask them to modify their infrastructure. This is my thought as well. The claim is that the fix on the infrastructure side should be a few days at most, but also that the infrastructure does not work for the app. If it’s only a few days for an infrastructure change, why is it so untenable to modify the ap…

> If it’s only a few days for an infrastructure change, why is it so untenable to modify the app? It could be an incompatibility with a core requirement e.g. application used webrtc or websocket, bundling / deployment system can’t handle them (will reject / close on upgrade requests or long connections), you’d have to rearch the entire product, probably detrimentally to the system / experience.

Certainly something like that is possible, but I don’t think so given the way OP wrote about it. Especially lines this this: “the deploy tooling isn't entirely compatible”.

That doesn’t sound like a critical missing feature (which would somehow be cheap to add). It sounds like a fairly minor roadblock that he expected the other team to solve for him. My guess is that it’s one of those things that might take the other team a week and would take OP 2-3 weeks, so in a little start-up, the other team would obviously do it because it’s more efficient. But in a big corp, asking the other team to make the change is kind of like asking AWS to make the change. (Which could be the case if Amazon is the big corp in this story.)

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#409
I love how this thread is full of startup lovers complaining about how big companies don't just spend all day scrambling to do whatever the nearest tech lead mentioned at lunch.

Meanwhile, these same people are complaining about how AWS has a minor outage in one region that is preventing them from getting their work done or hurting their business.

Take a moment to reflect.

Re: Ask HN: Startup acquired by a large company and it sucks. What to do?

#410
There is missing information. Presumably you have some retention bonus or stock. If not, start looking yesterday.

If you do then you start calculating what it’s worth to you, is it a private company? Is there 401k matching? If you can keep your mind occupied, you rest and vest and plan the next chapter. It’s also worth considering what you can learn, they aren’t stupid, these processes usually have a reason. It’s a reason that startup folks are immune to, it doesn’t mean it is invalid. Life changing money isn’t always life changing money, I couldn’t retire on $500k, but it did change our lifestyle, we paid off a house and had enough to save a good chunk and put a down payment on our ski condo. It was easily worth 3 years of not fun job.

The last one? I got about $75k in stock in a private company, they will have a liquidity event at some time but it might not have been worth 2.5 years. I don’t regret it but it was particularly unfun and had some toxic elements.

Also worth considering, I did the same drill and ported and built new tech on “their platform.” Punched it through, fought uphill battles every day, and got it done. Turns out, they didn’t expect it so I became a made man in their org, I could do stuff. I got a reasonable promotion from it and some more pay and whatnot. It felt good, might not have been the best financial choice but it wasn’t bad.

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