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Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

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Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#401

Post by detaro »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #396
throwqwerty wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maybe Ender went too far, but he did act in self-defense the book is literally about a kid committing genocide and the reasons why he should feel okay about it (ie a pretext). or did you not read it through to the end?

I read through to what I quoted. What an author starts spouting completely nonsense arguments, why would I waste my time continuing further? The author apparently thinks self defense is as bad as killing for the heck of it, if they're that dumb, why would I be interested in their moral judgment for anything else?

Tbh, I think it shows that you went into the link looking for something to fail it over. I don't think the author makes the claim you think they are making.

Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#402

Post by Gollapalli »

throwqwerty wrote: post #391
TulliusCicero wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read > ender's game is nazi apologia in your comment, I was pretty sure that there would be a point in the quoted article where the author went from reasonable background/description, to instantly jumping to a completely nonsensical argument, and I was not disappointed. > The difference between Peter and Ender is not in what they do, but in what they are What? That's incredibly dumb. This like saying a serial…

>Maybe Ender went too far, but he did act in self-defense the book is literally about a kid committing genocide and the reasons why he should feel okay about it (ie a pretext). or did you not read it through to the end?

Did you read the sequel?

He literally spends the rest of his life making up for that mistake as speaker for the dead.

Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#403

Post by TulliusCicero »

detaro wrote: post #401
TulliusCicero wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read through to what I quoted. What an author starts spouting completely nonsense arguments, why would I waste my time continuing further? The author apparently thinks self defense is as bad as killing for the heck of it, if they're that dumb, why would I be interested in their moral judgment for anything else?

Tbh, I think it shows that you went into the link looking for something to fail it over. I don't think the author makes the claim you think they are making.

Yes, I expected that it would make a nonsense argument based on the description of the person linking to it, and that's what happened.

Look, it's them that made the argument. I even quoted the relevant parts. They're clearly arguing that Ender is aggressive and bad because he's violent in response to violence against him. Self defense apparently doesn't count.

If they want to make an argument that makes sense instead, they should do that.

Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#404

Post by detaro »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #403
detaro wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh, I think it shows that you went into the link looking for something to fail it over. I don't think the author makes the claim you think they are making.

Yes, I expected that it would make a nonsense argument based on the description of the person linking to it, and that's what happened. Look, it's them that made the argument. I even quoted the relevant parts. They're clearly arguing that Ender is aggressive and bad because he's violent in response to violence against him. Self defense apparently doesn't count. If they want to make an argument that makes sense instead…

Yes, you quoted a section that describes how the characters in the book view (and struggle with) the fact that the main character kills violently and how that is justified by the different circumstances. And then somehow claimed that the author describing that means the author thinks circumstances don't ever matter.

Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#405

Post by egypturnash »

lukifer wrote: post #220

Robert Anton Wilson's "Illuminatus! Trilogy". I read it as an arrogantly close-minded teenager, and it shocked my brain open, planting seeds of heretical ideas and omni-directional agnosticism that blossomed over the course of years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illuminatus!_Trilogy

I was an arrogantly agnostic and intellectual young adult when I read it. It had similar results.

I think the appendices may have been most important to me, ultimately. Some more than others of course.

Every now and then I return to it and the painfully sixties parts get even more painfully so - I suppose I shouldn’t expect an subtle treatment of women from a couple of guys who were working at Playboy when putting it together, but it’s still grating, and makes it harder and harder to recommend to the next generation.

Also it inoculated me against Ayn Rand with its parody of her extended paeans to the joys of being fucked in every possible way by rich assholes who value money over morals, and after seeing the damage done to society and people by libertarianism, I cannot thank Wilson and Shea enough for that.

Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#406

Post by DantesKite »

ryan_w wrote: post #88

Hunter x Hunter by Yoshihiro Togashi - I recently started reading manga again and had heard about the series. It's an amazing feat of visual storytelling, jumping genres all the time, an incredible and vast world, and complex characters you can't help but love or hate. On the surface it looks fun and lighthearted but that facade is quickly thrown out to explore mature themes, ultimately culminating in an exploration…

The HunterxHunter anime is (in my humble opinion) one of the finest stories ever told, right up there with Dostoevsky and Isaac Asimov.

Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#407

Post by TulliusCicero »

detaro wrote: post #404
TulliusCicero wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I expected that it would make a nonsense argument based on the description of the person linking to it, and that's what happened. Look, it's them that made the argument. I even quoted the relevant parts. They're clearly arguing that Ender is aggressive and bad because he's violent in response to violence against him. Self defense apparently doesn't count. If they want to make an argument that makes sense instead…

Yes, you quoted a section that describes how the characters in the book view (and struggle with) the fact that the main character kills violently and how that is justified by the different circumstances. And then somehow claimed that the author describing that means the author thinks circumstances don't ever matter.

Uhh, no. You can even look at other parts of it and see:

> Card thus labors long and hard in Ender’s Game to create a situation where we are not allowed to judge any of his defined-as-good characters’ morality by their actions. The same destructive act that would condemn a bad person, when performed by a good person, does not implicate the actor, and in fact may be read as a sign of that person’s virtue.

"The same destructive act"? Notice again how the author apparently thinks fighting in self defense is the same 'act' as fighting because you want to hurt somebody.

Maybe next up they can argue that target shooting is the same as shooting a person in the face, because either way you're shooting a gun!

> even when his actions seem to belie that characterization.

This isn't just the author asserting how the characters see Ender, it's also clear that the author thinks that "[Ender's] actions belie that characterization". But that's only true if you view fighting back against bullies as not good, if you view self defense as unkind.

Thus, the author's argument is clear: self defense is not acceptable. They won't come out and say it explicitly, because that would make it obvious how dumb the argument is, but that is nevertheless what they're asserting. Instead, they argue it while pretending not to.

Are you sure you're reading the same article? Their argument of "context doesn't matter, only the bare literal act" is quite clear.

Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#408

Post by throw1234651234 »

sdedovic wrote: post #21

- Anna Karenina: Tolstoy knows people better than they know themselves - Brave New World: Aldous Huxley is a genius and a wordsmith - Dune: a sci-fi masterpiece, highly recommended to anyone into sci-fi - Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: not purely fiction but an amazing book I will surely re-read during my lifetime

Zen and The Art...is like a boomer bible.

Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#409

Post by Talanes »

throwqwerty wrote: post #391
TulliusCicero wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read > ender's game is nazi apologia in your comment, I was pretty sure that there would be a point in the quoted article where the author went from reasonable background/description, to instantly jumping to a completely nonsensical argument, and I was not disappointed. > The difference between Peter and Ender is not in what they do, but in what they are What? That's incredibly dumb. This like saying a serial…

>Maybe Ender went too far, but he did act in self-defense the book is literally about a kid committing genocide and the reasons why he should feel okay about it (ie a pretext). or did you not read it through to the end?

The whole point is that genocide is such a horrible act that while all of the adults are pushing for it, none of them are willing to actually make the call. Ender was manipulated into committing genocide so that the adults could all tell themselves that it was someone else who did it.

And he never feels okay about it. He reaches a sense of peace with the overwhelming guilt, but only by giving his life entirely to that purpose.

Re: Ask HN: Great fiction books that have had a positive impact on your life?

#410

Post by coldcode »

The Agony and the Ecstasy by Irving Stone. It's a biographical novel about Michelangelo. It made a profound statement to me when I was young that "an artist must leave a body of work" - it's not enough to just do one thing one time, but devote your life to being continuously creative and never be satisfied. I've tried to do that in everything I've done, whether as a programmer, musician, writer, or lately, artist.
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