Start working. You won't learn programming until you actually do it. You can always do some kind of degree online in the meanwhile (or afterwards when you have time). That should keep the credentialists at bay. There are lots of websites where you can pick up paying gigs: elance, odesk, guru, ... The point is, however, that you will have to be able to do the job, or else, they'll expel you from the job and they'll just get someone else to do it instead of you.
Ask HN: Do companies accept self-taught programmers?
41–49 of 49 posts
Re: Ask HN: Do companies accept self-taught programmers?
#42Short answer, focused on the USA's job market: Yes, with some effort you can definitely find companies that don't require a degree. Long answer: The long-term trend has been that it's becoming harder and harder to get by without a degree. It's just supply and demand in action. A long time ago, people with programming skills were hard to find, and companies had to settle for hiring whoever they could find. But people…
About 4 years ago I interviewed a candidate who was great; did whiteboard exercises well, knew a bunch about data structures, had good design sense and some exposure to systems programming (this was for a group doing drivers and so forth for the Xbox). He was young, but we were all happy with his performance and frankly we wanted him on our team.
We all said "Hire this guy."
Turned out he didn't have a degree, and a director said "Nope."
Okay, so that director is an asshole. Everyone says that he's an asshole for this decision (and he is an asshole for other reasons, too -- MS still hasn't fired him and I have no idea why not). I go to him and say, "Guess what college I graduated from?" and he mentions some place hifalutin' and crazy and a little embarassing. "Nope, I'm a drop-out from (certain cow college). Also, those really good engineers Greg and Frank? They don't have degrees, either. So why don't you give this kid a break, he'll be great."
And he was.
So . . . the results will be mixed. I can say that most of the engineers I work with do not care about educational background, they care about knowledge and experience, however you got it. The various and gormless filters you may have to go through probably do care, especially at larger companies.
Once you have sufficient experience, though, nobody will care.
Re: Ask HN: Do companies accept self-taught programmers?
#43[deleted]
Re: Ask HN: Do companies accept self-taught programmers?
#44[deleted]
Re: Ask HN: Do companies accept self-taught programmers?
#45Which Company?
Company A? Company doesn't hire, people in the company do.
Answer to your Question - "It depends".
A question to your question - Can you make company feel stupid enough to even think about a college degree?
Re: Ask HN: Do companies accept self-taught programmers?
#46Short answer, focused on the USA's job market: Yes, with some effort you can definitely find companies that don't require a degree. Long answer: The long-term trend has been that it's becoming harder and harder to get by without a degree. It's just supply and demand in action. A long time ago, people with programming skills were hard to find, and companies had to settle for hiring whoever they could find. But people…
About 4 years ago I interviewed a candidate who was great; did whiteboard exercises well, knew a bunch about data structures, had good design sense and some exposure to systems programming (this was for a group doing drivers and so forth for the Xbox). He was young, but we were all happy with his performance and frankly we wanted him on our team. We all said "Hire this guy." Turned out he didn't have a degree, and a…
There are all sorts of anecdotes on both sides of the story. The one that I go back to is programmers I know who don't have a Bachelor's but do have jobs at companies with hiring managers who have enlightened ides about these things. And y'know what? They are starting to find themselves indentured to those companies because prevailing attitudes on the subject are continuing to shift.
A lot of them are now thinking about getting a bachelor's degree from some online program as a defensive move. Small companies go under or get acquired without much warning, and big companies can have managerial turnover without warning. Either way, not having a bachelor's degree leaves them at increased risk of being in a situation where they're getting overlooked for jobs or raises.
I think this is a really important trend to bring to the attention of any young person who is seriously considering dropping out of college to go into industry. It might be fine right now, but take a look at the long view and consider that this person is going to need to be maintaining their career for another 40 years at least.
Personal anecdote: My grandfather only had a high school diploma. He ended up being an extremely accomplished corrosion engineer, and invented some of the key tools and technologies that are used to maintain oil and natural gas pipelines. Does his experience imply that it would have been wise for my brother (also an engineer) to try and skip college? No, not in the slightest. The economic circumstances of the job market for engineers changed in the intervening decades, and the prevailing attitudes within that job market changed right along with them.
Re: Ask HN: Do companies accept self-taught programmers?
#47Yes and no.
Do startups accept self-taught programmers - definitely yes.
Do companies in general accept self-taught programmers - yes.
Do large fortune 500 companies accept self-taught programmers - generally no.
There are exceptions to this rule. If you're self-taught and have done something amazing, like created your own programming language used by thousands of programmers, or you've got years of experience in some area thats hard to find experts in, like realtime systems programming then they'll make exceptions and you can get in.
If you want to work in R&D you're going to need a PHD, the only exception here might be in startups.
But aside from the big players, you can almost always substitute experience over education. Given two programmers, one with 3-4 years experience and the other with a bachelors degree and no experience, its actually the case that exp will trump education just about every time, especially on general programming positions and in the startup community, where all that matters is what you can do and have already done.
Overall though, do yourself a favor and finish up your degree, you'll always have the advantage over candidates that don't have one.
Re: Ask HN: Do companies accept self-taught programmers?
#48programming is a blue collar job, no degree required. Try climbing the ladder in a technical company (not a startup). You won't have the skills and understanding to assume the responsibilities of higher positions.
It's been this way for a long time. Programming can be taught at a vo-tech.
Re: Ask HN: Do companies accept self-taught programmers?
#4995,476 jobs posted http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=%22bachelors+degree%22&l= 5,308 jobs posted http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=%22in+lieu+of+degree%22&l=
Top results suggest this is useless to the HN-centric environment
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