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Ask HN: Can someone refer me to a designer that doesn't suck?

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Re: Ask HN: Can someone refer me to a designer that doesn't suck?

#41
post #18

You sound like a programmer that is "difficult." It also sounds like you're the type of programmer that doesn't treat designers with any respect, so they likely reciprocate -- the type that doesn't like to collaborate, but just boss people around (it's more than apparent from your post that you sneeringly look down upon the design profession). In short, you come across like a huge jerk and I can't imagine what it mus…

Having had some experience with working with Nick Kezhaya in the past, I can attest he's as caustic and annoying as his writing reads.

Decent code/server monkey, but we quickly hid him in the back room after he hurled racial epithets at a potential business partner who happened to be Jewish.

Re: Ask HN: Can someone refer me to a designer that doesn't suck?

#43

OpenBSD to store private data, and FreeBSD to scale; everything else is for failures Considering that attitude of closeminded zealotism, you are probably the problem. The title of this post screams 'most designers suck'. You seem like the kind of guy that gives others the feeling that he expect them to be mindreaders and that scorns those that don't grasp what he means fast enough. That doesn't work with most of the…

In other words, if you come on HN spouting bullshit about what OS you host on while asking for help finding a designer, you're probably doing it wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Can someone refer me to a designer that doesn't suck?

#44
It sounds like the problem you are having is a pretty classic one. There are a lot of great designers out there, ones that we may respect and admire, but they don't know the first thing about the business of doing design work.

When looking for a designer, pay close attention to not just their blog design, but to the names on their portfolio. Who have they worked for and how they solved design problems for them matters just as much as the quality of their work.

A "good designer" should know how to work with you, to reflect your vision and walk you through (hopefully) an iterative process of design. They should communicate their approach pretty early on, telling you how they plan to solve your design/user interaction problems and let you know exactly what to expect.

And for the record:

Any design project should start with Information Architecture (IA), usually meaning sitemaps and wireframes and hopefully a prototype of some kind. You may not think you need it, but this is a crucial first step to "design." It allows the designer to reflect your features in a lightweight deliverable, making sure you are both on the same page. One they can quickly iterate on to flesh out the user interactions.

(Any client that comes to me with wireframes already done, usually costs more not less, as we still need to go through the process in order for me to get up to speed. If they are already done it means a lot of design decisions have already been made without me and they will be very hard to undo for the sake of the users best interests. A seasoned designer comes with a lot of experience and best practices, which can help considerably on any project.)

IA should be the bulk of a design engagement and will entail a lot of back and forth with you, and should start right after a brief getting to know the project period, typically called "Discovery." If that doesn't happen consider it a red flag. Scheduling can be a problem at times, but the schedule should be understood on both ends at the beginning.

After IA comes Design, which is typically done in Photoshop, which is great for creating designs, but major changes can eat up a lot of time (and money). It is crucial that the layout, navigation and interactions are all agreed to (and don't change) before design begins.

If you are skinning a web app and doing design in parallel, then you need a good CSS designer, and Photoshop can be skipped, but that is an entirely different type of design project. You can use a junior level resource here, but it could take more time and iterations than a traditional design process. For this type of project I might recommend a designer that has a good rep for creating skins and themes.

A good designer will limit the number of "comps" or unique designs you do as well as the "rounds of revision" per each design in the estimate and contract. I never recommend that you ask a designer to do more than one comp, it only multiplies that cost and the client gets little extra in the end because of it. (It's like telling the designer that you know more about design then they do and they often produce one good design and two shitty ones because of it. Any client asking for multiple comps is a red flag to me that approval is going to be a pain in the ass, and they often get charged accordingly.) Instead look for lots of rounds of revision so you can work iteratively to get that just right design.

That all being said, understand that design is very subjective. A good designer knows this and has an approach to figuring out how to create the right design for you and more importantly your users. You should get a sense of this right away, if not, then ask them how they plan to create it. Be honest with them about your tastes, your internal stakeholders and most importantly listen to your designer and their experiences. And for god's sake treat them as an equal partner and not as a slacker art school student.

The design of your product will be one of the most important decisions you make. It will establish the first and often only impression of your product that your end users will make. I've seen it a hundred times over a bad initial design can be a very costly mistake, costing a lot more to undo. It establishes trust and understanding of how your product will work. And remember that design isn't a perfect process, but a good designer should get you a hell of lot closer to your goal.

You'll notice that I haven't really answered your question. It sounds like you need to think a bit more about what type of designer you need and what they need to do for you before moving forward. Once you figure that out, getting a designer to suit your needs becomes a lot easier.

I have a few related articles I wrote about the business of web design ages ago, but should still be relevant, that should hopefully help understand the business of designers a bit more:

http://flingmedia.com/articles/pricing-a-project/ http://flingmedia.com/articles/the-agency-model-is-dead/

Good luck.

-Brian

Re: Ask HN: Can someone refer me to a designer that doesn't suck?

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A humble question form design-challenged developer: at $75/hr how long would it take to design a prototype of a site similar to the Guestlist of yours (i.e. what's the total price usually)?

It would cost around $8-12k for a decent sized website. Our website is pretty small and had the benefit of carrying over a lot of assets from the application itself so 3-4k? I am actually working on evolving the site because I am not happy with where it is right now. Of course design needs time to bake in the oven. You can't grind out a website every two weeks. I normally design a page and then forget about it for at…

Wow, I like your app a lot. Its beautiful and the idea is very good.

I am co-founding a startup and much of the design work will be done by me. Would you be willing to share any tips? What I would really like to know is how are those 160 hours spent? (160hours*$75=$12000)

The software life cycle is well documented in a number of methodologies: XP, iterative, water fall etc. But when it comes to the design phase of a web app I feel left in the dark.

What I am wondering is what techniques are you using during those 160 hours, in what order and what percentage is spent on each?

----------------------------------

For example: (a quick guess) it would be something like this:

- gather requirements - 10 hours

- draw mock ups on paper - 20 hours

- draw prototypes in illustrator - 20 hours

- make designs in illustrator - 50 hours

- review with customer (self)- 10 hours

- iterate on designs in illustrator - 50 hours

-----------------------------------

Do you have any tricks of the trade (http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/how_to/tricks_of_the_...)?

Re: Ask HN: Can someone refer me to a designer that doesn't suck?

#46
I might as well plug my own site: http://www.sachagreif.com/

I've done my share of back-end and front-end developement (php, coldfusion, and of course html, css, jquery, etc.) before focusing on design, so I generally work well with programmers.

I consider myself fairly easy to work with, although to be fair I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I hate being "remote-controled" by a client (like all designers).

I've done a lot of UI work lately but I can do regular websites too.

Re: Ask HN: Can someone refer me to a designer that doesn't suck?

#47

Interesting that this was not mentioned yet: http://haystack.com/

It crossed my mind, but it really doesn't answer the OP's specific need for a recommendation of someone he can happily work with.

I've heard it said that Haystack really just shows you the middle quartiles of designers. The top quartile don't need to list themselves; the bottom quartile don't have an exciting enough portfolio to do so. I dunno, maybe there are some great designers on there, but having some form of testimonials is sorely lacking.

Re: Ask HN: Can someone refer me to a designer that doesn't suck?

#48
post #31
post #18

You sound like a programmer that is "difficult." It also sounds like you're the type of programmer that doesn't treat designers with any respect, so they likely reciprocate -- the type that doesn't like to collaborate, but just boss people around (it's more than apparent from your post that you sneeringly look down upon the design profession). In short, you come across like a huge jerk and I can't imagine what it mus…

There's something vaguely saddening about the fact that the "you suck" post has twice as many upvotes as the highest-rated post actually answering the question.

Might it be pointed out, I never said he "sucked."

He titled his post by stating that Designers "suck."

Then he had a rant about why he thought Designers "suck."

Then made a request for Designers to contact him if they want to work with him.

All I did was quote from his own post, and point out how it came across. Apparently a lot of other people agreed.

Re: Ask HN: Can someone refer me to a designer that doesn't suck?

#49
http://www.taliacohen.com

She is a member of our tribe and used to working with 2 uber open source computer scientist geeks that we are at (rmdstudio.com). She is actually dating a young oxford post doctorate mathematician.

But she doesn't work for people, she only works with them. So instead of asking her to send in a portfolio, perhaps you could contact her and let her know that you need some design help.

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