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Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

#41

Post by sharkweek »

toolz wrote: post #36
sharkweek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, good SEO is designing a page that is perfectly crawlable by bots (this is still difficult for most people, especially for larger websites and people who aren't familiar with webmaster best practices), and researching/creating/promoting relevant content to attract links. There are of course shady people in the SEO world, but most of the "one cool trick to help you rank better" tactics are long gone as Google has d…

research/creating/promoting don't really fall under an SEO title. If search engine optimization is broadly defined enough to where content creation is considered SEO, then basically everyone with a website is an SEOer.

Content marketing is certainly rooted in SEO though, with the often-existing explicit intention of having a relevant piece of content rank well for informational queries. Or at least having this content designed to attract links, which are still a major part of the ranking equation.

The lines are definitely blurring, so the main thing I'm arguing is that SEO should be in every marketer's tool belt, it's not some black hat wizardry anymore.

Re: Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

#42

Post by normloman »

stan_rogers wrote: post #35
normloman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all they do is write interesting content and promote it, why do we call it SEO? Last time I checked, that matches the job description of public relations writer.

It goes a little beyond content writing. At a certain level of resolution, SEO (the good stuff) and accessibility become nearly indistinguishable as well. So yes, there is a sense in which "real" SEO is merely a matter of writing web pages that give your users what they want with optimal markup, and SEO is probably a bad name for it - except that the people who need it are usually going to be searching for ways of ge…

I worked as an SEO for years. Quit because of this. "Good" SEO is about good content, good coding, and good usability. But in order to do that, you need great designers and writers. SEO people tended to be neither. My colleagues got into the industry by keyword stuffing and link farming. They were trying, unsuccessfully, to change their specialty after updates to Google's algorithm. We helped sites get ranked, but most of our clients would see a better return on investment hiring designers and writers.

You touched on the other issue: Even if all you do is write and design, by calling yourself SEO, you're attracting clients narrowly focused on their search ranking. That's the metric they're going to judge your performance on, and it won't matter how accessible you make their site if they don't get the #1 spot for "cosmetic dentistry allentown pa." So by selling SEO, you miss an opportunity to educate clients on creating a memorable user experience.

Re: Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

#43

Post by JeremyMorgan »

This is exactly why I got out of SEO services. I always did quality, white hat, and ethical work and had a lot of great customers for a long time, and they started getting eaten up by these idiots. Basically the story would be:

1. I perform work for customer, they're satisfied. They would show improvement and start getting more traffic.

2. Some scam company company calls them and appeals to their sense of greed.

3. They tell me they're going with the new company who erases everything I did.

4. Six months or so later they call me back because things are worse and want me to fix it.

5. I refuse because now they're deep in black hat territory, and either deranked by Google or well on their way. Or they'd have some strange legal issues popping up from the crap the other company did.

So yeah, after a while I jumped out of the business. I know that isn't exactly relevant to your problem, but these companies are just complete scumbags in every sense of the word, and anything you can do to damage them, you should.

Call a lawyer, and protect your good name. Take a chunk out of the bad guys.

Re: Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

#44

Post by smsm42 »

BrainInAJar wrote: post #15
wesleytodd wrote: post #11

Agreed that you should have your lawyer contact them with a threatening email. Also, you could have a friend "hire" them for some small service just to get their information. Then provide that to your lawyer to pursue more substantial legal measures. My experience with SEO companies has been horrible. I worked for one for a month, have worked with them in the past at agencies I have worked at, and was given a list of…

SEO, as an industry, is shysters. Even "good" SEO is still a service designed to break search engines. A scummy industry is going to attract scummy people, it just becomes a question of to what degree they are scummy.

There is a place for a good SEO - as not every tax preparer should be cheating on taxes, not every SEO should be using greyhat and blackhat tactics. Some are legitimately helping people to organize their info to be searchable - and most laymen have zero idea what is searchable and what is not - in fact, many professionals don't either. Of course, a couple of rotten apples can spoil everything, and I have no data about the percentage of rotten apples in SEO now - anybody has something better than personal anecdotes?

Re: Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

#45

Post by jsonne »

wesleytodd wrote: post #40
jsonne wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sucks. I jumped from the world of tech into starting my own agency. There seems to be a lot of crappy agencies and firms out there that use questionable tactics to get the job done faster and for cheaper rather than correctly. I think it stems from not wanting to leave any money on the table. Rather than only taking clients that are a good fit culturally or have realistic goals, they take everyone. When you take…

So true. This is one of the main reasons I am happy to be out of that sector. The #StartUpLife, despite the stress, is much more fun.

For sure. There's ups and downs to both worlds. I get bored easily, so the ability to jump from project to project while having the same job is something I really like. As many bad agencies there are out there, there's some good ones too.

Re: Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

#46

Post by bhartzer »

dmschulman wrote: post #5

SEO companies, especially the shady ones in my experience, like to be particularly litigious. Is there an equivalent of the Better Business Bureau (BBB) in Canada? Contacting the BBB and filing a claim is definitely a way to get some momentum, lots of businesses in the USA at least depend on having a good, clean BBB rating.

There is a very important distinction here. The original post says that they were called by an "SEO Startup". That, in fact, is untrue. The firm who called the doctor here was NOT an SEO startup, according to their website they're a "web advertising" company.

There is a big difference between a company that's a web advertising company and an SEO company or SEO firm. Lots of agencies do SEO and web advertising, but to put a blanket statement out there that this was an SEO firm (meaning Search Engine Optimization firm interested in getting organic/natural traffic to a site) is wrong.

This shady company is a web advertising company, who put up a false/misleading website on a misleading domain name. It doesn't sound like their intention was to do SEO. They make money by charging the doctor or clinic for the website and they "maybe" get some local listing, perhaps do PPC. But typically a company like this doesn't have the expertise or knowledge (or care) to do real SEO (which requires real content and link earning).

Don't get me wrong, what the company did here was false, misleading, and punishable. But to put a blanket statement out there and assume that this was an "SEO firm" or "SEO startup" is just flat out wrong.

This original post should say that the doctor was contacted by an "agency" and not an "SEO startup".

Re: Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

#47

Post by ssharp »

toolz wrote: post #36
sharkweek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, good SEO is designing a page that is perfectly crawlable by bots (this is still difficult for most people, especially for larger websites and people who aren't familiar with webmaster best practices), and researching/creating/promoting relevant content to attract links. There are of course shady people in the SEO world, but most of the "one cool trick to help you rank better" tactics are long gone as Google has d…

research/creating/promoting don't really fall under an SEO title. If search engine optimization is broadly defined enough to where content creation is considered SEO, then basically everyone with a website is an SEOer.

SEO is constantly evolving. Table stakes is a website that is easily indexed. SEO strategy is currently focused largely on creating and promoting content.

Re: Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

#48

Post by davemel37 »

I sympathize with OP but want to make Two corrections -

1. It wasn't an SEO company, it was a Scam Artist impersonating an SEO company... let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

2. It wasn't an attempted growth hack. It is a racket and should be called that. In fact, every growth hacker out there will insist that "putting users first" and "creating a sticky product" is growth hacking...not scamming people.

Re: Ask HN: An SEO startup is impersonating a physician. What should I do?

#50

Post by codexon »

BrainInAJar wrote: post #15
wesleytodd wrote: post #11

Agreed that you should have your lawyer contact them with a threatening email. Also, you could have a friend "hire" them for some small service just to get their information. Then provide that to your lawyer to pursue more substantial legal measures. My experience with SEO companies has been horrible. I worked for one for a month, have worked with them in the past at agencies I have worked at, and was given a list of…

SEO, as an industry, is shysters. Even "good" SEO is still a service designed to break search engines. A scummy industry is going to attract scummy people, it just becomes a question of to what degree they are scummy.

Saying SEO is a service designed to break search engines makes the false assumption that search engines are perfect.

I've seen many instances where Google failed to place the best site at the top and there was no evidence the top site used any SEO.

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