Ask HN: why are domain names reversely ordered? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: why are domain names reversely ordered?

#41

Post by DougBTX » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 11:05 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #37

vidarh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't invent domain names. He invented the web. So, no, it's not citation enough. Also, given that domain names were already in the current order, if he'd put it in reverse order for the web, it'd be far worse than what we have now, which at least is consistent across different types of services. EDIT: I guess you could argue it's citation enough if we assume, based on his examples, that the original question ref…

I figured Tim Berners-Lee is in an excellent position to criticize not only his own work, but also the more general case of the domain name system. Obviously if he had done it the other way around in URLs then that would have been a fairly strong point of critique against the DNS, the fact that he would have in retrospect been better of to choose the alternative in spite of creating two different systems makes that c…

Not that it matters, but quoting one person about what they would have done doesn't count as "widely considered". I don't believe any large proportion of people consider it at all, let alone in a consistent direction.

Re: Ask HN: why are domain names reversely ordered?

#42

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 11:36 PM UTC

DougBTX wrote: post #41

jacquesm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured Tim Berners-Lee is in an excellent position to criticize not only his own work, but also the more general case of the domain name system. Obviously if he had done it the other way around in URLs then that would have been a fairly strong point of critique against the DNS, the fact that he would have in retrospect been better of to choose the alternative in spite of creating two different systems makes that c…

Not that it matters, but quoting one person about what they would have done doesn't count as "widely considered". I don't believe any large proportion of people consider it at all, let alone in a consistent direction.

As phishing becomes more and more of a problem this is getting wider 'play', people that are security conscious have commented on this for years, and the hierarchical break between domain names and paths always was an eyesore.

I've seen this crop up in many places, I was looking for Tim Berners-Lee statement if I could find it because I figure he's the authority in the field.

You may disagree with that of course.

Re: Ask HN: why are domain names reversely ordered?

#43

Post by pbhjpbhj » Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 11:46 PM UTC

etherealG wrote: post #28

riobard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what is in my mind! The mismatch of domain name order and path order really bothers me for a while and I just couldn't find a sound reason for that. For the date format, AFAIK, only English speaking countries use MM/DD/YY, possibly due to the same order in plain writing style, e.g. October 17, 2009. This is completely insane for virtually other parts of the world because logically it's either YY/MM/DD…

actually, only USA does the rediculous MM/DD/YY. the UK is DD/MM/YY

Plus when saying a date it is usual to say the day first in the UK then the month if it's not clear from context. The US date ordering is one of those things (like non-metric units) that make me feel that they're being purposefully obstructive; kinda like Microsoft, always avoiding using other peoples agreed standards.

Re: Ask HN: why are domain names reversely ordered?

#44

Post by cema » Sun, Oct 18, 2009, 1:24 AM UTC

joshu wrote: post #27

com.google:http/80:/path/to/the/file perhaps?

Or even

  com/google:http/80:path/to/the/file

However, it could just as conceivably be

  http/80:com/google:path/to/the/file

because, imho, the protocol and port are not really part of the hierarchical structure (part of the url, but not necessarily part of the uri).

Re: Ask HN: why are domain names reversely ordered?

#45

Post by robgough » Sun, Oct 18, 2009, 11:05 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #7

anigbrowl wrote: post #2

For the same reason your address doesn't go 'USA, California, San Jose, 1297 Fray way'.

Bad analogy: email: georgex@somedomain.sometld www: http://somedomain.sometld/~georgex/ real life: George Xandros 553 Sunset Blvd 12322 San Jose USA So, the web is mixed up, and the other two are 'backwards'. None of them get it in the most logical way. Same with dates: 2002.10.09 vs 09.10.2002 or 10.09.2002 It's all about conventions, what we're used to, so to say 'the same reason' is calling upon a reason that you…

Is there a clear benefit to driving on the right hand side of the road, over the left?

Re: Ask HN: why are domain names reversely ordered?

#46

Post by jacquesm » Sun, Oct 18, 2009, 1:55 PM UTC

robgough wrote: post #45

jacquesm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad analogy: email: georgex@somedomain.sometld www: http://somedomain.sometld/~georgex/ real life: George Xandros 553 Sunset Blvd 12322 San Jose USA So, the web is mixed up, and the other two are 'backwards'. None of them get it in the most logical way. Same with dates: 2002.10.09 vs 09.10.2002 or 10.09.2002 It's all about conventions, what we're used to, so to say 'the same reason' is calling upon a reason that you…

Is there a clear benefit to driving on the right hand side of the road, over the left?

On the whole there might be, but I'm not sure of that. In the current situation, yes, because there is a cost associated with having to support two kinds of driving styles.

I have both 'LHD' and 'RHD' cars and find that I can switch at will, but most people are uncomfortable in the 'wrong' kind of car because it messes up your overview when overtaking on 'b' roads (two laners).

If everybody would be driving the same kind of car on the same kind of road then that problem would go away.

Re: Ask HN: why are domain names reversely ordered?

#47

Post by tokenadult » Sun, Oct 18, 2009, 3:24 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #37

vidarh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't invent domain names. He invented the web. So, no, it's not citation enough. Also, given that domain names were already in the current order, if he'd put it in reverse order for the web, it'd be far worse than what we have now, which at least is consistent across different types of services. EDIT: I guess you could argue it's citation enough if we assume, based on his examples, that the original question ref…

I figured Tim Berners-Lee is in an excellent position to criticize not only his own work, but also the more general case of the domain name system. Obviously if he had done it the other way around in URLs then that would have been a fairly strong point of critique against the DNS, the fact that he would have in retrospect been better of to choose the alternative in spite of creating two different systems makes that c…

I figured Tim Berners-Lee is in an excellent position to criticize not only his own work, but also the more general case of the domain name system.

And I agree, being the person who asked the question, and thank you for pointing out what he has said on the issue.

Re: Ask HN: why are domain names reversely ordered?

#48

Post by mdoar » Mon, Oct 19, 2009, 11:55 PM UTC

jbert wrote: post #34

Because the US internet won out over the UK JANET? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JANET_NRS Which caused no end of problems in mail relay at the time.

Yes, I think this is the answer. There are two choices, so being human, we chose both. Then eventually chose one of those two. I used to have an email address jmsd@uk.ac.cam.cl i.e. with the domains reversed.

~Matt