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Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

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Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#41

Post by RussianCow »

Xelom wrote: post #32
steveklabnik wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're in Windows.... And Visual Sudio is a best in class IDE, but that still means it's an IDE. (read: there is just a MASSIVE culture gap. It's just as unfathomable to Ruby/Python people why you'd ever use C#.)

I really don't see any bad point of using and IDE. Or being in Windows... It's making me a lot productive. I don't have to search the docs when I forget a function, it is there with intellisense(and explanation of it). I can debug every piece of my code with the values of my variables. It handles a lot of the boilerplate for me too.

The difference is that Python and Ruby (and similar languages) don't have this boilerplate to begin with. Someone writing Python for a living doesn't have to use an IDE (most don't), but for a Java dev it's almost a requirement.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#42

Post by Sanddancer »

adamors wrote: post #31
icn2 wrote: post #14

It is not just language. It is the platform behind language. You choose python/ruby your stack probably is opensource/linux stack. If you choose c# you probably is stuck with windows stack, (in which you don't have a lot options like open source stack).

> probably is stuck with windows stack You're also stuck with licenses for everything from your development environment to your web server, database and not to mention operating system. Compared to Python/Ruby where development cost can be $0.

Mono's also free, and works well on unixes, and I've had no problem with components for various FOSS databases. There are some differences between the ms clr and the mono clr, but then again, there are differences between jython and cpython as well.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#43

Post by danso »

I'm sorry, but this is a pretty irritating type of question, something I would cheer to be closed if it were on StackOverflow.

Some of the greatest living programmers are using Python to demonstrate and build amazing things, and you have the nerve to ask people to prove to you why you should "give my time to the language?". On one hand, you're right not to just follow something just because everyone else seems to be doing it. Life is short, you can't just walk down every path that appears to be open. On the other hand, you are asking people to use up their short lives explaining to you something that would better be found on your own.

You're a developer. You already know the purpose of code and how to get started in it, in any language. You also live in the age of the Internet, where learning and trying new things in the programming world costs little more than time, thanks to the herculean efforts of open-source programmers who tirelessly make coding more comfortable for the rest of us.

The kind of question you ask is understandable from someone who has never programmed before. But to be a working programmer and to ask that kind of thing? Seriously?

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#44

Post by marcosdumay »

Xelom wrote: post #5
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

If you like C# then use C#. I think there are some people who see C# as a "Microsoft Thing" and won't have anything to do with it. As for Python, I don't particularly care for it, but many people find it to be a satisfactory language in the sense that you find C# satisfactory. That is, there are lots of good libraries that you can do to get many tasks done quickly. Performance doesn't matter much in applications that…

I'm writing a lot of little batch programs in my job. Like get those 1M records from db. Process them with an algorithm and write to results to this other table. I think you should write faster with Python. But performance of the processing is also important and LINQ helps a lot with the writing time.

That'll of course depend completely on the nature of the things you do with those records you get from the database, but 1M recors don't seem like much (do you join them with something?).

But if LINQ is what you need, well, Python may have a similar or not, depending on how you use it, but there is no reason for you to start writting C# in Python.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#45

Post by emeraldd »

Xelom wrote: post #5
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

If you like C# then use C#. I think there are some people who see C# as a "Microsoft Thing" and won't have anything to do with it. As for Python, I don't particularly care for it, but many people find it to be a satisfactory language in the sense that you find C# satisfactory. That is, there are lots of good libraries that you can do to get many tasks done quickly. Performance doesn't matter much in applications that…

I'm writing a lot of little batch programs in my job. Like get those 1M records from db. Process them with an algorithm and write to results to this other table. I think you should write faster with Python. But performance of the processing is also important and LINQ helps a lot with the writing time.

This maybe a bit overkill, but you could take a look at ORM layers. Something like http://www.sqlalchemy.org/ instead of playing with SQL directly.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#46

Post by Glyptodon »

The main reason people use Python or Ruby is that it's typically more productive. It's basically saying that you value saving development time, organization, a vast range of free 3rd party libraries, and easy dependency management more than you value runtime efficiency or code execution speed.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#49

Post by analog31 »

I'm a scientist who uses programming as a problem solving tool. Before learning Python, I spent upwards of a decade using Visual Basic.

My workplace has mostly C#, whereas I'm not part of the software development team, and am free to choose my own tools.

For me, a problem with proprietary IDE's is that the forced distinction between "development" and "run time" environments encourages centralized development, which invariably becomes bureaucratic. When I need something from the programming department, they hand me a program which I have to carry to the target computer, test, and report back to them on any bugs or further changes. This cycle can take days or weeks if they're busy with other projects at the same time.

In contrast, most of my work happens to be decentralized because it occurs in labs where the physical problem to be solved is located. Some of this work now occurs overseas. Much of it is done on computers that are off-network because the IT department rations connections. Locating the full development tools on each computer lets me quickly write and debug programs. And if I share a program with somebody else, it's not prohibitive for them to learn how to make their own changes. I had a total non-programmer say to me: "I think I found a bug in your code, and fixed it."

My situation is one where I actually have a reason to keep and share my programs in the form of source code rather than as an installable / executable package.

As well, I found Python to be easy for an old geezer to learn, and to write reasonably bug free code. And I love the packages.

Re: Ask HN: Why use Python or similar?

#50

Post by marcosdumay »

Xelom wrote: post #32
steveklabnik wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're in Windows.... And Visual Sudio is a best in class IDE, but that still means it's an IDE. (read: there is just a MASSIVE culture gap. It's just as unfathomable to Ruby/Python people why you'd ever use C#.)

I really don't see any bad point of using and IDE. Or being in Windows... It's making me a lot productive. I don't have to search the docs when I forget a function, it is there with intellisense(and explanation of it). I can debug every piece of my code with the values of my variables. It handles a lot of the boilerplate for me too.

You can either write a program that'll help you create programs in a language it can understand (the IDE way), or you can use a language that's so powerfull that no program can completely understand, and use it to write simpler programs, avoiding the need of automating things (the Lisp way). Anyway, you can not have both, but you can be in between.

Python is not at the Lisp extreme, but it's not very far from it.

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