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Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

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Re: Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

#41

Something I'm thinking about and doing a bit of experimentation with is using LLMs to write specialist higher level code. Rather than ask them to write web-apps in webby languages with open source frameworks etc, providing a very fixed, on-rails development process where everything is abstracted away. Accept that it'll be less powerful, but take the trade-off that it'll hopefully be faster and produce much more contr…

This sounds a bit like Ruby on Rails including Hotwire? Even has the “on-rails development” in the name, schema design in a config, migrations, etc.

Though some frontend decisions are a bit more open

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

#42
post #37

I'm in the middle of it so don't have any conclusions for you, but I started mucking with building my own cli coding app and there are _tons_ of levers available that aren't apparent from claude code or codex. Including altering the turn concept. I think it is still ultimately call and response but instead of everything is a quarter note you can get a little closer to a beat you like.

It's love to have an interface where I could have several conversations with an LLM, with common context, but each separate and anchored to a different place in the code

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

#44
I build a lot of my own tools, to suit exactly how I want to work. Obviously, having a little thinky guy in the computer to do most of the busy work of making new tools accelerates that, but tools that make the LLMs suit me also accelerates my general work.

Some stuff I've built:

https://github.com/swelljoe/tandem - Tandem is a sysadmin buddy that travels with you over ssh. Just a wrapper over tmux and claude code (or whatever agent you like), it opens two panes in tmux, one with an ssh session to one of the hundreds of devices I maintain, and one with a local Claude Code configured to use a local work space and instructed via CLAUDE.md/AGENTS.md to use tmux to interact with the remote machine. I built it because a lot of my coworkers were installing Claude Code on our robots and authenticating there to get help with robot troubles, and that felt bad. This allows them to keep all sensitive stuff locally and still get help troubleshooting directly on the device. I happen to find it useful, sometimes, too.

https://github.com/swelljoe/nelson - Nelson is a fancy Ralph loop for security bug hunting that I built to help audit my own software. It's also grown to include a benchmark suite I'm using to figure out which models are worth using for security work. I've published some of those benchmark results, and have a few hundred hours/dollars worth of new ones to publish this weekend. Turns out the benchmarking is more interesting, so that's gotten more attention than the bug-hunting side, but the benchmarks inform how the bug-hunting side works, and I added multi-model/multi-pass scans and de-dupe features recently because I found that letting models have a couple bites at the apple increases discovery, and there are bugs that only some models catch, and it's not always the top model that finds them. There's some overlap, but also some divergence. This research has also led me to start working on a harness for security auditing tasks; giving the agent tools and project structure data to lift detection and reduce false positives.

https://github.com/swelljoe/flar - FLAR is the Fast Light Agent Restrictor. It bubblewraps an agent so it is quite safe to use agents on your local machine, even with `--dangerously-skip-permissions` (which makes agents more fun to use). The sandbox feature found in most agents is porous and can be expanded by the agent harness itself. Similarly, if the agent introduces a supply chain attack into your code and runs it before you get a chance to audit/review it in a PR or run it through an SBOM dependency checker, the blast radius is exactly the project directory and the credentials/history of the one agent. (Whereas, without flar, the blast radius is your whole .ssh, github creds, all agent creds, your keyring, whatever secrets are in your home, etc.) This one is new. Just made it because I was talking about how I always put agents in VMs because I don't trust them. Someone suggested `srt` (https://github.com/anthropic-experimental/sandbox-runtime) and I like the idea but I don't like how complicated and huge and JavaScript it is. You can read and understand the entirety of `flar` in one sitting. Anyway, to break out of "prompt/response", you have to skip permissions, or call it via `claude -p` or API with tasks to perform. Nelson does the latter and `flar` does the former.

That's not to mention all the side projects and other stuff I've been able to make a lot of progress on.

The biggest one is finishing https://venturous.app/ (or, at least I made it do what I most wanted it to do, which is provide map overlays of US public lands and mobile data provider coverage so I can find cool places to camp free while staying connected). This is a re-implementation of an old defunct app called FreeRoam that I absolutely loved when I traveled full-time. I built half of it over several months by hand, and then Claude helped finish it in a few weekends and holidays. I'll get Claude to help build the mobile apps someday.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

#45
Just yesterday I tried to find an annoying and persistent bug in the cummunication between a Lyrion Media Server and my player. I used Opencode's native Big Pickle AI, and first it was a pain in the back, because it gave me a new code, I had to start the player and test the control in the server's web GUI, report the errors back, and so forth, and it tried a lot, but never found the real cause.

Then I got tired, and told it to use PlayWright to control the browser and test by itself. After some hangs, that I had to stop manually, it did all by itself, and finally fixed the bug. I had to increase the agents' steps setting in the config, but that was it. While it was fixing the bug, I surfed the web, and kept an eye on it, but it did everything on it's own. impressive.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

#46
Yes, like many others I've been experimenting a lot. What I've got so far is a harness-of-harnesses - ie, a harness which sits on top of Claude Code, Codex or OpenCode. I still use Claude Code or Codex directly for the initial planning of features, to investigate issues, and for small fixes, but whenever there's something even just a bit complex to do, I use my second-level harness.

Summarizing it a lot, what it does is:

* help you make better plans

* split plans into iterations, in a module-aware way for projects which have strict modularity (for now I'm doing this specifically with TypeScript and dependency cruiser) - this helps a lot when a project becomes complex

* ask an agent to implement an iteration, and then programmatically run a lot of checks after each iteration - not just regression tests, but also checks against project principles and conventions

* when possible, automatically fix deviations; when not possible, raise them to myself for an end-of-plan review

In this way, instead of having to constantly be engaged with the chat interface, with all the shorter or longer wait times which break my flow, I spend a lot of highly focused time during initial planning and final review. A plan implementation can go on for hours, and the various anchoring mechanisms added to the tool keep drift to a minimum.

At some point I'm planning to release this tool as open source. As this is the result of months of trial and errors, dogfooding, and vibecoding on the tool itself, the codebase is chaotic and the UI is still full of experiments I mostly basically abandoned, and I'm not used to releasing stuff in this status. But perhaps, in this brave new world, I should just do it and see what happens?

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

#47
post #20

> but I haven't been able to enter flow state like I can when I hand write code. Fixing that for you. I haven't been able to enter flow state like I can when I write code.

Prompts are a higher-level programming language.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

#48

I'm building "workboxes" to work on my startup. It helps me develop features insanely fast. A workbox is a simple worktree-in-a-sandbox per feature. I have a simple front end where I can launch new workboxes: I input a prompt (a documented grilling session) and it creates a branch, a PR, and starts an opencode coding session on an e2b sandbox based on a custom template with the app's monorepo. Each workbox has a publ…

Is it similar to how Claude Code Web works? It generates a cloud container and clones your repo, and works on a whatever you want (preferebly something specific), and then it generates a branch and a PR.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

#49
I think the fundamental aspect of flow is that it requires a high amount of cognitive engagement. Most of the time you're just not getting that from interacting with an LLM because the process is relatively passive. There are also forced breaks while it does its internal CoT which breaks flow.

I think a lot of people get a sort of novelty effect when first interacting with an LLM which can feel superficially like flow, but it's different in that it eventually wanes and what really happens in practice is you're encouraged to disengage and this makes it almost impossible to get into a true flow state.

The risk here I think is that if you get humans disengaging from the task at hand, there's a higher chance of bugs being introduced. You might move slightly faster in the short term but be forced to hit the brakes in the medium/long term.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone experimenting with different ways of using LLMs for coding?

#50
post #37

I'm in the middle of it so don't have any conclusions for you, but I started mucking with building my own cli coding app and there are _tons_ of levers available that aren't apparent from claude code or codex. Including altering the turn concept. I think it is still ultimately call and response but instead of everything is a quarter note you can get a little closer to a beat you like.

Same here. Every time I come up with a complicated way to personalize my workflow I end up finding out there's already a better way to do it.

The only thing that I consistently do is create a simple html dashboard with a to-do list I can guide claude code with while rendering progress somewhat graphically. I love the levers but it's kinda the opposite of the flow in question.

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