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Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

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Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#41

Post by dpark »

madduci wrote: post #17
netcraft wrote: post #6

I think the reason python won was that it was easy to learn and read and was batteries included. vs perl: People need to solve their problems, not fight with syntax Theres a lot of network effects as well. The more people were using it, the more people will use it.

I don't believe the "syntax win" scenario. Python is also ugly, due to the required indentation, like yaml. I believe more in the ecosystem, specifically how the computer vision and machine learning movements have adopted python extensively as frontend language (the heavy weightlifting is still doing in C++). The exploit of numpy has brought many many use cases into the language as well.

I think the controversy around Python’s indentation helped it gain success. Regardless of how you feel about the choice, it’s a great opportunity for bike shedding and encouraged (and still encourages) a lot of talk about the language.

Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#42

Post by juujian »

madduci wrote: post #17
netcraft wrote: post #6

I think the reason python won was that it was easy to learn and read and was batteries included. vs perl: People need to solve their problems, not fight with syntax Theres a lot of network effects as well. The more people were using it, the more people will use it.

I don't believe the "syntax win" scenario. Python is also ugly, due to the required indentation, like yaml. I believe more in the ecosystem, specifically how the computer vision and machine learning movements have adopted python extensively as frontend language (the heavy weightlifting is still doing in C++). The exploit of numpy has brought many many use cases into the language as well.

I was not exposed to much code before trying Python 2, and I always thought of the indentation and newlines as aesthetically pleasing and helpful. Same for yaml actually. Would argue that preferences on indentation etc. are just an acquired case.

Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#43

Post by markus_zhang »

madduci wrote: post #17
netcraft wrote: post #6

I think the reason python won was that it was easy to learn and read and was batteries included. vs perl: People need to solve their problems, not fight with syntax Theres a lot of network effects as well. The more people were using it, the more people will use it.

I don't believe the "syntax win" scenario. Python is also ugly, due to the required indentation, like yaml. I believe more in the ecosystem, specifically how the computer vision and machine learning movements have adopted python extensively as frontend language (the heavy weightlifting is still doing in C++). The exploit of numpy has brought many many use cases into the language as well.

Even for someone who has used more than one languages, I think Python is fine. It’s a lot prettier than the academic-HN preferred lispy languages.

Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#44

Post by fud101 »

netcraft wrote: post #6

I think the reason python won was that it was easy to learn and read and was batteries included. vs perl: People need to solve their problems, not fight with syntax Theres a lot of network effects as well. The more people were using it, the more people will use it.

Perl had the batteries and it had CPAN. Python borrowed the best bits of Perl and enjoyed a reputation which overlooked its many flaws. If it had been scrutinized as much as Perl, we'd have realized it was just as bad but in different ways.

Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#45

Post by theamk »

Python wins hands-down in having readable code.

Perl has so many ways to write the same code, no two codebases are the same - it's practically different languages. Back when I was programming Perl, I remember reading my own Perl scripts I wrote few years ago, and being annoyed with how they were doing everything all wrong... because in those few years, my Perl style has changed significantly. And others' scripts were even worse!

Plus, python had all those neat quality-of-life things useful for day-to-day scripting. For example actual function parameters, exceptions (no more "or die" after each open), pretty big stdlib (I _don't_ miss having to configure "cpan" on each new machine), repr() in language core, etc..

And yes, Python got lucky somewhat - there was a need for "Perl but easier to read and friendlier to new users", and Python has filled that need. And now that need is no longer open, so it's harder for newcomers to fill that niche. But that's life in general - Rust filled the niche of "No overheads like C++ but memory safe", Go has filled the niche of "Compiled systems language with GC" etc... And once a language gets popular, network effects kick in.

Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#46

Post by aefalcon83 »

Python had a pretty big jump in 2008 when it was the first language supported by Google AppEngine. It was one of the big 3 languages used internally at Google. That's probably the first key domino in the chain.

I'd like for Julia to fill its niche myself.

Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#47

Post by kllkhaslndfjn »

netcraft wrote: post #6

I think the reason python won was that it was easy to learn and read and was batteries included. vs perl: People need to solve their problems, not fight with syntax Theres a lot of network effects as well. The more people were using it, the more people will use it.

[dead]

Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#48

Post by suriya-ganesh »

madduci wrote: post #17
netcraft wrote: post #6

I think the reason python won was that it was easy to learn and read and was batteries included. vs perl: People need to solve their problems, not fight with syntax Theres a lot of network effects as well. The more people were using it, the more people will use it.

I don't believe the "syntax win" scenario. Python is also ugly, due to the required indentation, like yaml. I believe more in the ecosystem, specifically how the computer vision and machine learning movements have adopted python extensively as frontend language (the heavy weightlifting is still doing in C++). The exploit of numpy has brought many many use cases into the language as well.

required indendation simplified a ton of readability problem with other languages for a regular user.

There was no easy for people who wanted to get something done in a simple interface.

Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#49

Post by kayo_20211030 »

My 2c. And only my recollection. Back in the stone age, there were two that had significant mindshare: perl and python. Of course, there were others, and they had their day in the sun too (e.g. rexx, rebol, etc.). I suspect that python stood out, and developed momentum, because of its availability on, and integration with, Windows where many of today's senior devs were cutting their teeth. Particularly, I'd point out, Mark Hammond's contributions. Suddenly, you had an accessible language with a deep integration with the underlying OS. Perl had that too, if you were using one of the unices, but most eager devs weren't - back then, linux wasn't what it is today. Perl excelled at the traditional file-based (and filelike-based) tasks. It had a good niche in early web development using cgi. But, I think python was just both more accessible in general, and more useful in general than perl - without resorting to C, or C++, or another compiled language.

Re: Ask HN: Why Did Python Win?

#50

Post by f33d5173 »

madduci wrote: post #17
netcraft wrote: post #6

I think the reason python won was that it was easy to learn and read and was batteries included. vs perl: People need to solve their problems, not fight with syntax Theres a lot of network effects as well. The more people were using it, the more people will use it.

I don't believe the "syntax win" scenario. Python is also ugly, due to the required indentation, like yaml. I believe more in the ecosystem, specifically how the computer vision and machine learning movements have adopted python extensively as frontend language (the heavy weightlifting is still doing in C++). The exploit of numpy has brought many many use cases into the language as well.

> Python is also ugly, due to the required indentation

As opposed to the not required indentation that literally everyone who writes code ever does anyways?

> believe more in the ecosystem, specifically how the computer vision and machine learning movements have adopted python extensively

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

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