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Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

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Re: Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

#41

Post by keiferski »

nicbou wrote: post #40
keiferski wrote: post #17

Immigrating to the EU is becoming increasingly difficult. Do you have any family connections or ancestry? That will be an easier route than grad school or a job.

Not at all. From a legal perspective it gets easier and easier. From a technical perspective too. The biggest hurdles in Germany are the housing market and the job market. Both favour locals.

Well, that’s not my experience at all, and it doesn’t line up with what’s actually happening politically.

With recent government shifts in Poland, Italy, France, Germany, etc. I think you can expect it to become more difficult to move to the EU. It already is becoming more difficult in many countries, and this is pretty obviously going to increase over the next 3-5 years.

Re: Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

#42

Post by nicbou »

keiferski wrote: post #41
nicbou wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. From a legal perspective it gets easier and easier. From a technical perspective too. The biggest hurdles in Germany are the housing market and the job market. Both favour locals.

Well, that’s not my experience at all, and it doesn’t line up with what’s actually happening politically. With recent government shifts in Poland, Italy, France, Germany, etc. I think you can expect it to become more difficult to move to the EU. It already is becoming more difficult in many countries, and this is pretty obviously going to increase over the next 3-5 years.

I help people settle in Germany for a living. Legally speaking, the country is consistently lowering the bar for immigration, permanent residence and citizenship. Technically speaking, we're getting a lot better at informing and accommodating immigrants.

I'm aware of the political winds, but practically speaking, immigration is not getting harder.

Re: Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

#43

Post by keiferski »

nicbou wrote: post #42
keiferski wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that’s not my experience at all, and it doesn’t line up with what’s actually happening politically. With recent government shifts in Poland, Italy, France, Germany, etc. I think you can expect it to become more difficult to move to the EU. It already is becoming more difficult in many countries, and this is pretty obviously going to increase over the next 3-5 years.

I help people settle in Germany for a living. Legally speaking, the country is consistently lowering the bar for immigration, permanent residence and citizenship. Technically speaking, we're getting a lot better at informing and accommodating immigrants. I'm aware of the political winds, but practically speaking, immigration is not getting harder.

Germany is the single most open country in the EU to immigrants, and even then the cultural and political winds are very obviously shifting. Everywhere else is the same: anti-immigration forces are ascendant both culturally and politically: the Netherlands, Poland, Italy, France, Sweden, etc.

As I said in my original comment, it is becoming more difficult. You’d have to be completely blind to politics to not understand this. Especially when anyone moving there now practically won’t get residency for 1-2 years if they started soon. Realistically if you begin the process this year, you’re going to be applying for permanent residency/ citizenship in 4-5 years under a government hostile to it.

Which is why I suggested using a family or ancestry route if possible. Because the process is most likely going to get more difficult soon, and already is in many places.

Re: Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

#44

Post by camhayes »

m_dupont wrote: post #20
m_dupont wrote: post #19

My Qualifications: I moved to Germany for 7 years I can only add my voice to what others have said: Just apply to universities and get your student visa. In general it is very difficult applying to jobs in countries from abroad, and in many countries they have laws requiring that companies must prove that they couldn't source talent locally first. Meanwhile student visas are very easy to get, and after you are in the…

I have some more tips, specifically pertaining to Germany and your requirements: > Language: In Germany you can get around no problem with 0 German. Me personally I downloaded Duolinguo the day before my flight and I did just fine learning as I went. > EU financial foundation: I'd say you can just build a US financial foundation then send it over via bank transfer when u arrive. > Established living situation: If you…

Did you experience a lot of cash loss in moving your finances over? I’ve been concerned about losing too much to fees, which is in part why I’ve hoped to set a bit of a financial bedrock before trying to start school.

Re: Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

#45

Post by NalNezumi »

I think you got it reversed. Most people go to Europe (or most first world really) FIRST as a student, get an understanding of the place + connection + trust and THEN apply for job. It's good I think that you want to be prepared for the study, but usually programs that welcomes international students don't strictly require that and instead offer it too, as part of study

Applying for job out of the blue is notoriously hard, even with right qualifications (IT for example) at right time (not recession). Even my EU citizen friend struggled finding job in London (pre-brexit), another got a "work-application visa" in Netherlands, and didn't find anything for a year, even with a degree from an EU university. She got an offer too late, by contact in her previous residence, so still it was through networking.

You can still ofc find jobs. There are forums, job boards, events to connect with people. But for Europe, unlike US you're well protected as a worker. This makes hiring more risky and employer a bit more cautious, which means you're extra disadvantaged as a guy applying from abroad, because they can't gauge trust. Networking (knowing right people, have the right degree/school/job on your resume) is still powerful in Europe.

As for my story: was (kind of?) expat in Japan for 5 years, although my mother is Japanese (but I'm born and raised in Europe) so being able to speak the language & understand culture put me in a native-expat middle ground. I found a job through an "IT Talent from abroad recruitment service". Many of my expat/migrant coworkers found job the same way, although they usually had PhD or Master degree to help their visa application.

Still, the biggest help to land a job was the language fluency + I had gone to an exchange program at one of their top 3 university (although only for 6 month, enough to land "trust points")

Re: Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

#46

Post by rkomorn »

jltsiren wrote: post #22
rkomorn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not an expat in the country you are currently in. You are an expat in the country you left. If you're in a foreign country, you're either an immigrant (as a generic term) or, if you want to get pedantic, you can use whatever more apt definition they have (visitor, migrant worker, non-immigrant, etc).

You are an emigrant in the country you left. Immigrants and expats are overlapping terms, but there are some differences in common usage. An immigrant may intend to stay in the host country permanently and make it their new home, while an expat just happens to live there for the moment, often for a specific purpose. Expats are often more privileged than immigrants. An immigrant may seek to integrate into the society…

I agree with your characterization of expats as typically being more privileged, and the context you give.

That said, it is expat and emigrant that overlap, not immigrant and expat.

An expat is someone who has left his country, with varying degrees of permanence and volition. Eg: to be exiled is to be expatriated by force.

Absurd example: you could technically be an expat without immigrating (or visiting) any other country if you kept to international waters (or unclaimed space?).

The distinction between "expat" and "immigrant" is made by governments as well. Example: as someone who over time held multiple non-immigrant and dual-purpose visas, became an immigrant (permanent resident), then naturalized, I can tell you "expat" was nowhere to be found on the dozens of INS and USCIS forms I've had to fill out. It was never a status I could apply for or one I was given. On the other hand: the US embassy, and my home country's embassy, do offer me "expat services" where I currently live.

Re: Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

#47

Post by Bnjoroge »

PenguinCoder wrote: post #34
Bnjoroge wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's looking to gain permanent residency, that's an immigrant. Nothing different lmao

No, it is not the same. One can be an immigrant and not a expatriate.

it is lmao, you are just quibbling over technicalities. He is an immigrant because he is looking to stay in that country permanently and not temporarily.

Re: Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

#48

Post by camhayes »

Bnjoroge wrote: post #47
PenguinCoder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not the same. One can be an immigrant and not a expatriate.

it is lmao, you are just quibbling over technicalities. He is an immigrant because he is looking to stay in that country permanently and not temporarily.

Not permanently

Re: Ask HN: What was your path toward expat?

#49

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

Bnjoroge wrote: post #47
PenguinCoder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not the same. One can be an immigrant and not a expatriate.

it is lmao, you are just quibbling over technicalities. He is an immigrant because he is looking to stay in that country permanently and not temporarily.

> quibbling over technicalities

That is this entire thread, including the OP, with whom you seem to agree. Why have you not complained to tkiolp4 that they are just quibbling over technicalities? To be frank, I rather suspect it's because "quibbling over technicalities" is something that does not concern you, except as it can be a convenient excuse to dismiss an argument you don't want to engage with intellectually.

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