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Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

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Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#41

Post by geye1234 »

wruza wrote: post #24
geye1234 wrote: post #17

The ACT approach worked for me. It's compatible with CBT, but with a different emphasis. The following names may help: Claire Weekes, who somebody else in this thread recommended. She's the pioneer of the approach. She wrote mainly in the mid-20th century but her work is still accessible. Also look at Kevin Majeres' work, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGa-jQJazpY Also look at the DARE Approach to anxie…

You want to train the rational part of your brain to disregard the anxiety signals coming from your amygdla; and over time, the amygdla's messages will become less and less intense Can that really be more effective than/without digging to the cause? My personal experience with downward arrow is that on success, it doesn't reduce anxiety by itself, but it adds lots of courage and knowledge to intentionally face situat…

I suppose I would say that you should be aware of what triggers your anxiety, for sure, for the reasons you state. But once you're aware, limit the amount of further analysis you do. I think the law of diminishing returns will kick in pretty quick. Other methods (ACT) will prove much more fruitful once you have a basic awareness. ACT is like building muscle: the more you do the more effective it gets it gets. Analysis is the opposite :-)

Perhaps I over-stated the case in my GP post. I didn't mean to imply that you should be ignorant of the reasons; but they are definitely far less important than the biological/neurological processes that are taking place. At least such is my experience, and such (I believe) the research says.

> Do you really feel it less, or do you accept it like a tinnitus?

Acceptance, over time, causes you to feel it less. Seeing it as something horrible and evil that you must get rid of will cause a vicious spiral, and end up making you more anxious.

Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#42

Post by bluefirebrand »

devwithanxiety wrote: post #25
neverartful wrote: post #16

Have you discussed this with your doctor? If not, I would schedule an appointment ASAP. It's possible that medication might be able to help significantly. If it does help, it could be that it helps you enough to turn things into a more manageable situation at work. This might not be your long-term optimal solution, but it could make life less miserable until you do find your long-term optimal.

Thanks! Fortunately I'm not that bad to the point of being miserable. 3 years ago I tried lexapro for 3-6 months. It worked somewhat but was more of a bandaid. Beyond medication, I'm not quite sure what else a doctor can do that a councillor can't provide.

I'm hesitant to suggest this, but I struggled with anxiety and depression for a long time

In my early 30s I was diagnosed with ADHD. I was put on a mild stimulant (low dose of concerta) and my anxiety was almost immediately gone

It is possible that your anxiety is a comorbid of another problem that you are struggling with, it is worth exploring at least

Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#43

Post by geye1234 »

devwithanxiety wrote: post #22
geye1234 wrote: post #17

The ACT approach worked for me. It's compatible with CBT, but with a different emphasis. The following names may help: Claire Weekes, who somebody else in this thread recommended. She's the pioneer of the approach. She wrote mainly in the mid-20th century but her work is still accessible. Also look at Kevin Majeres' work, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGa-jQJazpY Also look at the DARE Approach to anxie…

Thanks for the advice and book recs! I will take a look at them. I have been given some CBT techniques by my councillor but always good to read up on other systems as well. > Don't spend much time analysing some deep-seated reason for your anxiety. Yeah I feel like I'm supposed to be able to instantly see the problem on a little introspection yet that never happens. Constantly wondering why I feel like this doesn't s…

> Yeah I feel like I'm supposed to be able to instantly see the problem on a little introspection yet that never happens. Constantly wondering why I feel like this doesn't seem to help much.

Generally it doesn't. Anxiety disorder is irrational, pretty much by definition. So looking for a reason for the anxiety will IMO not be that helpful. (Yes in small amounts, for sure, but you'll soon face the law of dimishing returns.) But if you treat anxiety as your brain mis-firing and acting irrationally, you will I think be more successful. That's how the links I gave you treat it. IANAD, but these techniques worked for me, and I believe the research is pretty positive about them.

OTOH, CBT is good, I recommend it. ACT grew out of CBT.

I wish you the best.

Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#44

Post by gh0stcat »

I quit my last job because I was so destroyed by anxiety, to the point I had physical issues like shortness of breath, throat tightness, racing thoughts and even some thoughts of not wanting to exist anymore. I quit that job to focus on getting healthy. Now that I am feeling healthier though, this job market is destroying me and I haven’t been able to get a “true” software developer role since. I do software at a meat manufacturer and its very chill. The funny thing is that I have so much mental energy that I can work on stuff I want to. Before I was doing backend software development but wasn’t super passionate about the technology. Now I am learning vulkan, ray tracing, 3d modeling and rigging, among other things. So idk I would love a job in those things, but for now having a less demanding job is better for me than a more demanding job doing something I am not that passionate about.

Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#45

Post by malux85 »

devwithanxiety wrote: post #5
austin-cheney wrote: post #2

If your anxiety is so severe that you are having advanced chronic physical health problems then you need to be on medication. That can add years to your life. Otherwise, DO NOT take anxiety medication. The side effects can be horrific for your health and you will become dependent on it for daily functioning. See a doctor to be sure. Changes to diet can help. Try a low carb diet and drop alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine…

Fortunatley its not that severe and so I'm not taking medication. I can see them being useful in certain situations to give people really suffering some much needed space, but in my case I feel they would just be a bandaid. I agree with exercise and diet. I exercise 4-5 times a week and my diet is pretty good. All home cooking with lots of vegetables and not overly oily, salty etc. > Just remember a job is a job. The…

Also - try and adopt a growth mindset with a “can do” attitude.

It’s not your job to submit perfect, flawless code, it’s your job to understand the problem and submit a solution to the best of your abilities.

When you get feedback, don’t see it as criticism, see it as a mis-communication of requirements (how can we get better at that) or a learning chance (oh wow I never thought of that - yes let me fix it asap)

If there was something to learn genuinely then learn it, if there was someone just nit picking then be flexible and adopt their standards (within reason)

Part of being senior dev is unblocking and helping others, and a simple, positive, “can do” attitude and asking people “how can I help you more” can help the organisations culture and productivity more than “perfect code”

Naturally it is also possible you’re working in a place with a bad culture, in which case you need to switch.

Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#46

Post by gh0stcat »

prettyblocks wrote: post #31

Do you drink coffee? If so, try eliminating it completely and see if you feel any better.

This was huge for me, also taking phosphatidylserine supplements, magnesium, and prioritizing sleep (low caffeine helped with this the most).

Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#47

Post by 0xCE0 »

Here are couple of thoughts:

- Whenever anxiety fills my mind, I like to look deep space images to remind myself that all the human problems here on Earth are just made up. No other animal cares "economy", "startups", "performance reviews", "jiras" etc. What we humans have created here is truly form of "matrix" that forces to play by its rules, but it is illusion.

- If you think what other people think of you, the most probable answer is, they don't think anything of you, or if they think, one such thinking might last ~10 seconds. There are just too many people and too little time to think other people. No one probably cares, at least that is my own experience.

- I have always been the slowest performer in my jobs (and many times got special coaching/discussions because of that), yet it usually have been me who got promotions. It is because faster people usually just churn the same stuff, while my slow work has given me time to think what the work is actually about, and produce something completely new line of thinking and valuables that other people just don't do, because they just keep churching and churning the same.

- Keep up with the most important basics: sleep, healthy food, and physical exercise, to have energy for mental work.

Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#48

Post by brudgers »

devwithanxiety wrote: post #27
brudgers wrote: post #10

I do want meaningful work What kind of work is meaningful to you? It does not have to involve making software. Good luck.

True. It doesn't have to be software. For now I do want to stay with my career given how much I've invested into it. Im mid 40s so a career change now feels a bit of a hastle.

Is your career a well spring of well-being?

Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#49

Post by wruza »

geye1234 wrote: post #41
wruza wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to train the rational part of your brain to disregard the anxiety signals coming from your amygdla; and over time, the amygdla's messages will become less and less intense Can that really be more effective than/without digging to the cause? My personal experience with downward arrow is that on success, it doesn't reduce anxiety by itself, but it adds lots of courage and knowledge to intentionally face situat…

I suppose I would say that you should be aware of what triggers your anxiety, for sure, for the reasons you state. But once you're aware, limit the amount of further analysis you do. I think the law of diminishing returns will kick in pretty quick. Other methods (ACT) will prove much more fruitful once you have a basic awareness. ACT is like building muscle: the more you do the more effective it gets it gets. Analysi…

Ah I see now, it seems to be closer to my experience then, than I thought. Find the source and go torture it rather than beating around the bush.

tinnitus

Yeah I learned that sort of hard way :) But it was true. I should draw parallels but that begs more questions which probably aren't worth asking by the same principle. So much of it only gets clear in retrospect.

You and your sibling commenter made me realize something new about it, thanks!

Re: Ask HN: Struggling with Anxiety as a Developer – What Are My Options?

#50

Post by throw742809 »

wruza wrote: post #28
throw742809 wrote: post #20

Throw away. Most of the advice you will get is wrong. Not bad-wrong but waste-your-years-doing-100-useless-stuff-wrong. Most solutions attempt to be a cookie-cutter which fits all. Anxiety is body's natural response to an environment. Your job was not the problem. How you thought you were supposed to work - was the real activator. Even if you find a healthy job, you will yearn that "high" from the stress. Once anxiet…

While true, anxiety looks for nice pockets to throw fireballs at you from. And bulldozing these pockets is a part of reducing it. It's sort of an insect control. You can't get rid of them really, but there's a world of difference between a room full of insects and a single mosquito flying around. If you learn to accept it as part of your natural response, you will calm it down How do you deal with mind numbing effect…

1. Unknown to us, when body gives us anxiety we ask more of it.

The point of anxiety is to take action against the environment. But we stay in it and also, for many reasons hard to explain - we tell our body to produce more anxiety. So body learns over time, thinking thats what you need.

2. Acceptance is a way to tell body that environment is taken care of. No more anxiety is needed.

3. Once anxiety is activated, it is extremely hard to use your intelligence. 0.001. Trick is in retrospect. You learn to behave a predefined way - the next time that environment is encountered . Body will still produce anxiety and you will feel it. But with a plan A , you will learn to ignore it. This takes a lot of practice.

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