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Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

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Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#41

Post by euvin »

sadboi31 wrote: post #7

You only need to compete in dev/IT when you lack relationships. It's not about raw talent or raw output but instead absolute trust. Confidence that you (or whoever) has a good sense of direction and is grounded in their work. I don't trust anyone in this industry who has never had a mentor. I would never work with anyone else in this industry who is themselves not already a part of an active community where they are…

> I don't trust anyone in this industry who has never had a mentor. I would never work with anyone else in this industry who is themselves not already a part of an active community where they are valued and can make their own valued relationships/experiences.

I think I can understand where this statement comes from, and it's generally a good idea to stay away from those with bad track records and no signs of change. The wording does rub off wrong a bit because I think it's important to give unproven people a chance, especially if their circumstances have been very unkind to them. What would you count as a sufficiently active community or a qualified mentor?

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#42

Post by mikeocool »

> look into pivoting to tech recruiting.

Lots of good advice in this thread already. Just a note on this: when the market is tough for getting hired as an engineer, it’s REALLY tough for getting hired as a tech recruiter.

So if the market is a main concern, recruiting probably isn’t the best fallback.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#43

Post by computerdork »

samtho wrote: post #15
addaon wrote: post #4

I think you might be over-indexing on the process of getting a job, and under-indexing on the process of /doing/ a job. Yes, getting a job sucks -- for a few weeks or months as you work through the process. But once you have that job, it will take up more than a third of your waking hours for, ideally, years. What can imagine doing for 2000 hours of the next 8760? What would you /enjoy/ doing? That, more than the con…

This feels a little tone deaf and a bit useless. OP does not have a job and, especially in a the crumby market that we’re in for tech work, they just need anything they can get. You’re speaking from a place way higher on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs than where OP is currently. It’s hard to imagine yourself in a position where you can casually choose who you want to work for if you are not even getting interviews or of…

You have a point, the OP did say that they were having mental health difficulties. So the interview process can definitely make this worse given where this person is at.

But think Addaon also has a point. Yeah, the interview process can often be horrible. It can be demoralizing, especially after what the OP has gone through with their health (I have major health problems too, so can sympathize). For me at least, my solution was to treat a tough job search like a job. And in this way, you don't take all the rejection so personally (it's just apart of the interviewing).

Think this requires more context then what's possible in a post, but the OP may benefit from learning techniques for handling rejection? (I use them myself)

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#45

Post by LeonB »

citizen_friend wrote: post #18
addaon wrote: post #4

I think you might be over-indexing on the process of getting a job, and under-indexing on the process of /doing/ a job. Yes, getting a job sucks -- for a few weeks or months as you work through the process. But once you have that job, it will take up more than a third of your waking hours for, ideally, years. What can imagine doing for 2000 hours of the next 8760? What would you /enjoy/ doing? That, more than the con…

This. If you haven't been naturally excited to work on your own projects during this downtime, this field might not be for you.

I once held opinions like that, but overcame them long ago.

I came to realise that this kind of stereotype was effectively a narrow minded form of gate-keeping that contributed to the myopic tech-bro dystopia that’s been swallowing all that is good in this world.

Additionally — the original poster has been living through some very difficult times, it would be perfectly normal, and not a sign of job fitness, if motivation hit zero during a period like that.

I just urge them and others to ignore what you’ve said, and to look for a broader worldview.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#46

Post by citizen_friend »

vlovich123 wrote: post #30
citizen_friend wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. If you haven't been naturally excited to work on your own projects during this downtime, this field might not be for you.

To counter that, when you have a team with external accountability and teammates relying on you and a salary , that can be far more motivating than working on personal projects by yourself. I wouldn’t discount the field just because of that.

Agreed. And I don't blame mid career workers for not having time to do much after full-time jobs.

But this is an individual who is early in developing their skills and indicating they may not have motivation to do that. That's an essential step.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#47

Post by zaphoyd »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #22
koinedad wrote: post #11

Applying to a bunch of job postings isn’t really going to help. If you’ve already had a job as a dev than you’re already ahead of the game. I’d recommend spending more time on networking, it’s a lot easier to get an interview when you have a connection with the company/hiring manager. Just keep up your coding skills in your primary language so that when the interview comes along you’re ready. Also it feels like the j…

> I’d recommend spending more time on networking Can you provide some concrete examples that have worked for you?

College hack nights, geographical meetup groups, contributing to open source projects.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#49

Post by citizen_friend »

LeonB wrote: post #45
citizen_friend wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. If you haven't been naturally excited to work on your own projects during this downtime, this field might not be for you.

I once held opinions like that, but overcame them long ago. I came to realise that this kind of stereotype was effectively a narrow minded form of gate-keeping that contributed to the myopic tech-bro dystopia that’s been swallowing all that is good in this world. Additionally — the original poster has been living through some very difficult times, it would be perfectly normal, and not a sign of job fitness, if motiva…

Do you think you can become a really good engineer without being personally motivated and curious? I don't.

That's not to say you can't have seasons of more or less interest, but this guy is at the starting line.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#50

Post by computerdork »

By the way, this is a very tough job-market for tech, as after the pandemic, most major tech companies downsized by huge numbers (like 10-20% or something). And for a new grad, this must make it even tougher - have gone through this myself a long time ago after a huge tech downturn after college. It took me a year of intense searching to get a job - So many sympathies.

You may want to play the long game, and just assume it might take awhile to get the next job (but keep trying, it'll eventually work!).

Ps - I have health problems too, and for me at least, trying to problem solve to work around health issues is what tends to work for me.

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