Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 74 posts

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#41

Post by tredigi »

bsuvc wrote: post #10

> nice I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation. They live by a sort of unspoken code that they believe exists but which other people may or may not be aware of. When a "nice guy" doesn't get his way, he can become bitter and resentful. (I am u…

> I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation.

That's just red pill BS right there. Somebody is nice, I'm jealous, so he must be incompetent+manipulative, how else can I justify to myself that I want to see him as bad and myself as good? So let's just equate nice with bad, then jerk must be good, so I can just be a jerk and feel good about it!

No, just don't. Incompetent or not, nice is always better than jerk/toxic/.. No matter what red pill folks tell you.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#42

Post by [deleted] »

bsuvc wrote: post #10

> nice I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation. They live by a sort of unspoken code that they believe exists but which other people may or may not be aware of. When a "nice guy" doesn't get his way, he can become bitter and resentful. (I am u…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#43

Post by convolvatron »

scarab92 wrote: post #39
bsuvc wrote: post #10

> nice I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation. They live by a sort of unspoken code that they believe exists but which other people may or may not be aware of. When a "nice guy" doesn't get his way, he can become bitter and resentful. (I am u…

There’s a strange hostility in your comment that doesn’t seem to make sense. Nice guys can become resentful when their kindness isn’t reciprocated in environments where reciprocity is a reasonable expectation, but that I don’t see how that makes them jerks nor does it make being nice a red flag. Just know that if someone is nice to you that they are likely to expect to be treated how they treat you and either meet th…

i dont think grandparent is talking about actual niceness. just sort of a quid-pro-quo where we do and say awful things, and expect that we'll all just pretend that everything is pleasant.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#45

Post by mpeg »

Have you tried talking to your manager about this?

As an engineering manager, I have had people in my team that would much prefer me to shield them from other department heads and any higher levels of management as they want to minimise meetings and just deliver on work without the hassle of communicating with multiple stakeholders.

I have also had people that want to be included, enjoy documenting their work and communicating across the company and are naturally suited to lead the team – as a manager these people save me a ton of time as I know I can rely on them to run the team in my absence.

I might be naive as I don't understand the specifics of your team dynamics, but it might be worth to voice out your concerns to your manager and try to find a solution before you simply quit – it might be they are not aware of any of this or are inexperienced at leading senior people

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#47

Post by observationist »

Good luck getting people to have integrity. Incompetence and apathy are the status quo. People are more interested in the appearance of smooth operation than in putting in the work to actually operate smoothly.

You're not going to change the organization; they'll find a reason to fire you. Find a company or work where you can have some agency and be principled without dealing with structural nonsense. Quit doing good things for this company. The director and whoever hired them deserve to fail. Don't fix it for them.

When people tell you who they are, believe them. They've told you, clearly, in actions and words that they don't care about actually doing the right thing, it's all about appearances.

If you find yourself covering for the incompetence of your management, your peers, or otherwise where it's not the work you're paid to do, knock that shit off. It's not nice or good or kind or anything other than you being exploited by unscrupulous people who either know and don't care, or are incompetent and don't know. Leave and let them learn from the pain.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#48

Post by sevensor »

Two levels of poor management probably means that it goes all the way up the chain and your company is poorly led in general. This is going to go sour eventually and you aren't in a position to fix it or protect the team. If you don't want to stick around to see them get laid off, maybe it's time to get out.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#49

Post by bsuvc »

tredigi wrote: post #41
bsuvc wrote: post #10

> nice I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation. They live by a sort of unspoken code that they believe exists but which other people may or may not be aware of. When a "nice guy" doesn't get his way, he can become bitter and resentful. (I am u…

> I'm reminded of a book I read once called "No More Mr Nice Guy" where it explains that "nice guys" are actually kind of jerks because they behave certain ways to try to manipulate people and they expect reciprocation. That's just red pill BS right there. Somebody is nice, I'm jealous, so he must be incompetent+manipulative, how else can I justify to myself that I want to see him as bad and myself as good? So let's…

Typical nice guy response.

I never said any of those things, that it was better to be a jerk or toxic, but you assume that I did.

Re: Ask HN: My manager is bad. Should I care?

#50

Post by oceanplexian »

electrondood wrote: post #13

No offense, but there's a self-centered tone to your post that makes me think you're not able to take other perspectives, or acknowledge that there may be other priorities for different parts of your organization. "Failing to include you" is a perception. It may not be a failure. It may be intentional, either because you're technically good at your job but lack the soft skills that are also important. "Clear communic…

Counter point, I’ve worked at companies that weaponize the concept of soft skills as a way to cut down really great engineers who are high performers (I spent years at AWS learning this lesson). Even if you are strategically aligned with the leadership, customers, and the business, if you don’t play ball with elements of middle management or make them look bad you can get the axe.

My advice when you find you’re working at that kind of company? Leave. Consider becoming a founder or working at a smaller company.

Sometimes your spider sense is telling you the right thing. So many people are so hopelessly dependent on the system they will convince themselves that soft skills are more important than execution. Those folks are wrong.

Post reply on HN