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Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

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Re: Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

#41

Post by lmm »

Terr_ wrote: post #33
theturtletalks wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KYC is actually a clever trick by the government to pass the buck to the banks to verify if transactions are illegal or not. The main reason is that when you are dealing with the government, you are innocent until proven guilty. Using the banks to money launder? It’s up to the government to prove it and bring charges or its business as usual for you. With banks having that power, you’re guilty until you prove innocen…

Are you similarly against KYC rules when it comes to people trying to exchange scrap bundles of copper wire they "found lying around" into cash? There's always room for reform, but it's not as if the concept of due-diligence was invented just recently for banking alone.

> Are you similarly against KYC rules when it comes to people trying to exchange scrap bundles of copper wire they "found lying around" into cash?

I'm against them if they're opaquely administered by private entities, yes. That's guaranteed to be abused. The problem isn't having rules, the problem is having no due process and no oversight or recourse.

Re: Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

#42

Post by lbotos »

einichi wrote: post #23

Hosting providers get an obscene amount of fraudulent sign-up attempts, including attempts where they try to assume the identity of the person they have acquired the passport scan/photo of. I don't like it, but it's very understandable.

I once saw a scammer upload Jason Bourne’s passport to try and validate their VPS account at the provider I worked for lol

Re: Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

#43

Post by clintonb »

cowboylowrez wrote: post #21
clintonb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this sarcasm? Most banks don't write software, and the third-party software isn't that great. I don't want my bank involved in this at all.

I pay for a vps with a credit card, isn't this essentially the banking system doing the same thing?

No. That's payment, not KYC (identity verification).

Re: Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

#44

Post by lbotos »

lolinder wrote: post #15
fragmede wrote: post #11

the reason they're doing this is because of credit card fraud. the attacker takes a stolen credit card, signs up for their service, and then runs up a huge bill. when the credit card owner discovers this, they do a chargeback, which means the hosting provider is out the money. do this enough times and the hosting provider gets kicked off their credit card processor and can't take payments anymore. so yeah, it sucks,…

The issue OP has here isn't that they want anonymity, it's that the demands that this particular hosting provider is making are bizarre. This is not the norm yet for hosting providers, and you don't have to pay with Monero to avoid having to send a photo of the credit card you used to pay for a service. Just pick almost any other hosting provider and they'll happily accept your credit card via an online checkout flow…

A decade ago at the provider I worked at we’d routinely ask for id verification like this for accounts that tripped our fraud signal system.

Re: Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

#46

Post by TrueGeek »

rsync wrote: post #5

KYC is already required at banks and they have the most complete - and global - view of all transaction flows . Therefore we should insist that KYC be solely performed by banks - no other firms should be required to perform it. Given the extraordinary privileges that banks enjoy, this would be a reasonable contribution to society - especially given that they are doing it anyway .

This is how it’s done in the Netherlands. You sign up for a bank account and they check your ID, your proof of residency, they do a video selfie, etc. It was impossible for me to get a Dutch bank account (as an American) until after I signed my apartment lease which was a bit of a catch-22 but not insurmountable.

But once that is all setup they have a system called digiID that is wonderful. Anytime your identification needs to be verified it’s done through your bank. I signed up for renters insurance, they did a little oauth thing with the bank, the bank asked which details I was willing to share (the insurance company asked for just last name, dob, and address) and I agreed. It took seconds.

Re: Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

#47

Post by Terr_ »

lmm wrote: post #41
Terr_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you similarly against KYC rules when it comes to people trying to exchange scrap bundles of copper wire they "found lying around" into cash? There's always room for reform, but it's not as if the concept of due-diligence was invented just recently for banking alone.

> Are you similarly against KYC rules when it comes to people trying to exchange scrap bundles of copper wire they "found lying around" into cash? I'm against them if they're opaquely administered by private entities, yes. That's guaranteed to be abused. The problem isn't having rules, the problem is having no due process and no oversight or recourse.

It seems to me you don't want less-legislation as much as different-legislation.

In a "hands off" scenario where the only only factor for companies becomes "avoid losing a civil lawsuit for Failing To Do Enough to stop a criminal you assisted", they will still create an opaque system with no due-process/oversight/recourse. They will do that by default, because it's cheaper.

Re: Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

#48

Post by superkuh »

Terr_ wrote: post #33
theturtletalks wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KYC is actually a clever trick by the government to pass the buck to the banks to verify if transactions are illegal or not. The main reason is that when you are dealing with the government, you are innocent until proven guilty. Using the banks to money launder? It’s up to the government to prove it and bring charges or its business as usual for you. With banks having that power, you’re guilty until you prove innocen…

Are you similarly against KYC rules when it comes to people trying to exchange scrap bundles of copper wire they "found lying around" into cash? There's always room for reform, but it's not as if the concept of due-diligence was invented just recently for banking alone.

Are you similarly for KYC rules when it comes to people making DMCA and other legal claims?

It seems like KYC is always applied in situations that hurt the individual person and protect the incorporated person. Never the other way.

Re: Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

#49

Post by Terr_ »

superkuh wrote: post #48
Terr_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you similarly against KYC rules when it comes to people trying to exchange scrap bundles of copper wire they "found lying around" into cash? There's always room for reform, but it's not as if the concept of due-diligence was invented just recently for banking alone.

Are you similarly for KYC rules when it comes to people making DMCA and other legal claims? It seems like KYC is always applied in situations that hurt the individual person and protect the incorporated person. Never the other way.

I'm not sure what you mean. The DMCA is big piece of crap, but it does have penalties if someone files a DMCA claim regarding content they know isn't theirs to manage.

Alas, it does not extent to penalizing the (duly-authorized) filers who make claims they know are frivolous bullshit, but that's a 'nother can of worms.

Re: Ask HN: Would you send a photo holding your drivers license to rent a VPS?

#50

Post by lanstin »

lbotos wrote: post #42
einichi wrote: post #23

Hosting providers get an obscene amount of fraudulent sign-up attempts, including attempts where they try to assume the identity of the person they have acquired the passport scan/photo of. I don't like it, but it's very understandable.

I once saw a scammer upload Jason Bourne’s passport to try and validate their VPS account at the provider I worked for lol

Not the actor but Bourne's passport from the movie? Interesting.
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