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Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

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Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#41

Post by giantg2 »

brailsafe wrote: post #39
giantg2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the general consensus is that companies and managers are not as willing to hire the 15+ yoe crowd due to their cost. The new people you describe sound like they are bad, not just new. If you have FAANG coming to you, then it sounds like you're in a different class. If someone is just better than most, like 1 SD above, then it'll still be rough.

The cost of everyone has and will continue dropping. Among the people who'll be cheaper, more experienced out of work people who already got into the shit housing market early will outbid younger more desperate people who can't afford to take cheaper salaries.

I don't think we've ever seen that happen. I'm skeptical that it ever will. Costs go up as one gets older - family cost more , healthcare, etc. The company isn't just paying for your salary, They're paying for your benefits too.

If you're factoring in cost of living to outbid someone, then clearly offshore could outbid onshore and the problem still stands.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#42

Post by butwho »

zer00eyz wrote: post #12
tinktank wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and luck.

No. Brains and persistence, are more important. If you're not launching dumb stuff and you keep trying at some point something sticks. Learn from your failures, keep going after you fail, you're going to feel lucky when you do finally get a hit. Luck will have had NOTHING to do with it.

This is something people oblivious to their lucky breaks keep saying to themselves.

>you're going to feel lucky when you do finally get a hit.

Yes, because if I try something for 15 times and only 1 time succeed it is not my skills that worked, otherwise they would have worked the first time, it is pure luck. So I feel lucky because I am.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#43

Post by aristofun »

paulcole wrote: post #37
aristofun wrote: post #28

This sounds like programming was not your thing in the first place. You probably were there just for the money and fashion. Im not a born hacker myself, but this is something i can do better then the majority of the population. While i also can do many thinggs well with my hands - ill barely achieve same expert level as the best. So why bother.

> You probably were there just for the money and fashion. So? You think plumbers do it for the artistry, honor, and love of the craft?

So - this is the underlying reason of OP attitudes (a hypothesis). If it were the topic about plumbers - we'd discuss plumbers.

Btw, plumbers are definitely there not for easy money, not for super profits, not for fashion or for the hype.

Therefore they have 1000 times much more of my respect than all random mediocre programmers who just leveraged the temporary extreme lack of human resources — and now wining about the end of "golden age". And don't even have enough condifence in themselves and no respect for the craft to think they will not survive yet another market downtime.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#44

Post by paulcole »

aristofun wrote: post #43
paulcole wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You probably were there just for the money and fashion. So? You think plumbers do it for the artistry, honor, and love of the craft?

So - this is the underlying reason of OP attitudes (a hypothesis). If it were the topic about plumbers - we'd discuss plumbers. Btw, plumbers are definitely there not for easy money, not for super profits, not for fashion or for the hype. Therefore they have 1000 times much more of my respect than all random mediocre programmers who just leveraged the temporary extreme lack of human resources — and now wining about t…

So what are plumbers there for?

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#45

Post by brailsafe »

giantg2 wrote: post #41
brailsafe wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of everyone has and will continue dropping. Among the people who'll be cheaper, more experienced out of work people who already got into the shit housing market early will outbid younger more desperate people who can't afford to take cheaper salaries.

I don't think we've ever seen that happen. I'm skeptical that it ever will. Costs go up as one gets older - family cost more , healthcare, etc. The company isn't just paying for your salary, They're paying for your benefits too. If you're factoring in cost of living to outbid someone, then clearly offshore could outbid onshore and the problem still stands.

Personal costs shouldn't necessarily go down but also shouldn't inflate to require absurd salaries though. If you bought a home 10 years ago with a $250k salary, and are suddenly out of work along with everyone else, you have downward pressure on your asking price, but might have a better chance of tolerating it than someone who'll need a downpayment and to secure a long-term extremely high salary to service a brand new mortgage at a higher interest rate

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#46

Post by Loxicon »

Your neighbor who makes more than you (I am guessing) he has been doing it for a longtime and is good at it. So let's not overlook the time it will take you to catch up to where s/he is.

As for software dev being volatile, I agree. But it's not volatile for everyone. A good electrician is rare. A good programmer is rare.

If you are moving based solely on your neighbors success, I urge you to speak to 30 other elecs before you make the jump.

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