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Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#41

Post by maratc »

timrice wrote: post #38
maratc wrote: post #35

"Modem" stands for "modulator-demodulator" and it is there to convert the TCP/IP traffic in your house to some sort of non-TCP/IP connection that goes to your ISP. In case of cable provider, I believe the outgoing protocol is called DOCSIS, and in case of a telephone provider it could be ADSL/VDSL etc. (Historically some also used ATM above the physical layer.) The modem is there to do that translation. With fiber, t…

This is not entirely true with PON (passive optical networks). The ONT is more than a media converter (optical -> copper), it facilitates the conversation with the OLT (Optical Line Terminal) further upstream. That connection is not an ethernet connection and needs specialized hardware that can communicate using the PON protocols. The ONT is managed by the service provider and provisioned with their tooling. It typic…

This could be true in the general case, but in my specific case I was provided with the username/password combination that I fed into the PPPoE configuration page of my router.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#42

Post by [deleted] »

timrice wrote: post #38
maratc wrote: post #35

"Modem" stands for "modulator-demodulator" and it is there to convert the TCP/IP traffic in your house to some sort of non-TCP/IP connection that goes to your ISP. In case of cable provider, I believe the outgoing protocol is called DOCSIS, and in case of a telephone provider it could be ADSL/VDSL etc. (Historically some also used ATM above the physical layer.) The modem is there to do that translation. With fiber, t…

This is not entirely true with PON (passive optical networks). The ONT is more than a media converter (optical -> copper), it facilitates the conversation with the OLT (Optical Line Terminal) further upstream. That connection is not an ethernet connection and needs specialized hardware that can communicate using the PON protocols. The ONT is managed by the service provider and provisioned with their tooling. It typic…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#43

Post by slau »

I seem to remember that a long time ago, a single 2.5Gbit fibre was split across 32-64-128 households. The GPON’s job was thus to only decrypt the traffic meant for your connection.

It may be wrong information, or it may be completed outdated and irrelevant, but I remember that this was a reason why it was difficult to use your own ONT.

But seeing as the ONT is just a reframing/medium converter, I’m not sure I’d care enough, as long as the one provided by the ISP is reliable and performs well (those old black Alcatel ones were terrible).

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#44

Post by PopAlongKid »

vel0city wrote: post #6
toast0 wrote: post #3

When I had AT&T fiber, they had an ONT and a Modem, the ONT was installed outside the house, styled like the NIDs for POTS. There was no fee for the ONT, but there was a rental for the "modem". Afaik, all the modem did was run 802.1x auth and do crappy NAT. I understand that ATT has moved towards combining the ONT and Modem into a single piece of equipment.

I've been on AT&T's internet for well over a decade and I've never had a rental cost line item on my bill for their gateway. Don't get me wrong I'm sure it's modeled into their pricing, but so is the ONT and all the rest of their hardware. It's never been a line item in my bill.

I've been on AT&T's internet for several decades (going back to ISDN), and although my current fiber internet service shows no device rental fee, for many years before that, I had a monthly "Internet Equipment Fee" of $7. This was for the 2Wire 3801HGV router (the AT&T specific model).

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#45

Post by PopAlongKid »

vel0city wrote: post #19
mdon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can extract the certificate from the bgw210 and put it on a third party router. Then you don’t need the ATT modem at all. I did that last summer using this: https://github.com/mozzarellathicc/attcerts

If their ONT and gateway are a single device it's not the BGW210. AT&T has been rolling out a newer gateway for over a year now.

BGW320 is what I got a year and a half ago, a single box.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#46

Post by vinaypai »

There are reasons to want your own modem, to avoid overpaying via rental fees, for example, but what security or privacy do you imagine you're getting by buying your own modem?

You're literally plugging it into their network and they can see everything that goes on the pipe whether they are on the LAN side of it or the Cable side.

There's a stronger privacy argument for using your own WiFi access point though.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#47

Post by p_l »

maratc wrote: post #41
timrice wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not entirely true with PON (passive optical networks). The ONT is more than a media converter (optical -> copper), it facilitates the conversation with the OLT (Optical Line Terminal) further upstream. That connection is not an ethernet connection and needs specialized hardware that can communicate using the PON protocols. The ONT is managed by the service provider and provisioned with their tooling. It typic…

This could be true in the general case, but in my specific case I was provided with the username/password combination that I fed into the PPPoE configuration page of my router.

Because the xPON ONT was provisioned to setup ethernet over PON for you, which in turn was used to setup PPPoE session to actual internet.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#48

Post by icedchai »

Telecom legacy, probably. The ONT is seen more like the old "demarc" / "network interface device" from the copper days. You didn't install your own demarc: that was done by the telephone company. Everything after the "demarc" is customer operated, everything before the "demarc" is telco operated.

Operationally, it also simplifies things having a relatively uniform set of ONTs. With cable modems, there are 100's (1000's?) of models that have to be evaluated, tested, certified. Cable companies often do their own firmware updates.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#49

Post by maratc »

p_l wrote: post #47
maratc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be true in the general case, but in my specific case I was provided with the username/password combination that I fed into the PPPoE configuration page of my router.

Because the xPON ONT was provisioned to setup ethernet over PON for you, which in turn was used to setup PPPoE session to actual internet.

Again, I'm not certain of the entire stack beyond my house, but the device they brought for installation was sealed in the box that said "Media Converter" (not "ONT") on the box. It could still be the case that they somehow set it up remotely, or it could be that no setup was needed. For all I know, I tested my connection with PPPoE.

Re: Ask HN: Why does it seem hard to buy an ONT for fiber?

#50

Post by p_l »

maratc wrote: post #49
p_l wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the xPON ONT was provisioned to setup ethernet over PON for you, which in turn was used to setup PPPoE session to actual internet.

Again, I'm not certain of the entire stack beyond my house, but the device they brought for installation was sealed in the box that said "Media Converter" (not "ONT") on the box. It could still be the case that they somehow set it up remotely, or it could be that no setup was needed. For all I know, I tested my connection with PPPoE.

Yep, that's ONT.

They are provisioned remotely over network from controller run by ISP, which sets up appropriate timeslots (xPON is a time-division multiplexed network in practice, though DWDM - wavelength modulation - is also used).

  Internet -> ISP network -> PPPoE -> OLT (head unit) -> passive fiber network (and/or DWDM) -> passive splitter close to home (often in inside appartment buildings) -> ONT ->  ethernet to your router for PPPoE -> your systems
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