Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

news.ycombinator.com

41–50 of 56 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#41

I think from a games industry POV it's worse than 2008 right now. Beyond the raw numbers of layoffs, there's clearly a great number of other companies currently have hiring freezes on. There's simply little to no job postings on right now. Of course it's the worst time of year for listings, and things usually improve in Spring, but it's hard to be optimistic.

How come January is the worst? I thought it was among the best.

I guess December would be even worse. But similar reasons.

Half of January is Xmas/NY hangover. Things just slow to startup again.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#42
Contrary to what most people on this site would say, for many, many years society has overproduced and overcompensated software developers for what they actually do. No other profession, besides maybe Law or Accounting gets higher compensation for making their work less efficient. We have frame works stacked on top of frame works when in many cases we could accomplish the same function, maybe faster 10-20 years ago, with fewer compute resources. As the field matures and becomes more efficient, which is bound to happen some day, I expect relatively static industry standards to overtake the continuous churn of abstractions with dubious value added.

Additionally I would say you can't build an economy on advertising alone. I over the past 20 years too much time and money has been invested in advertising which doesn't really make anything. I suspect many businesses purchasing online advertising are basically getting ripped off. A decade ago when search worked effectively you could find the product or service you wanted with a simple Google search. Now you get served a bunch of semi relevant or irrelevant ads cloaked as search results. So there is a big disruption opportunity for someone who can re-invent search to connect people to what they actually want. I can imagine a search or directory device that connects people and businesses to manufacturers, marketers and service providers...both sides could pay for use directly connecting the revenues of the directory operator to its performance. Even today I know in the manufacturing and engineering space I would rather look at McMaster-Carr or Grainger catalogue than Google Spam or look at the website of a still going business I know from 15-20 years ago that doesn't even show up in search results today.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#43
post #16

Anecdotally, I received 2-3 messages from recruiters almost daily during 2020-2021 (ended up taking a job from one in 2021). I didn't hear anything from recruiters from 2022 until about 2 weeks ago -- now they're starting to trickle back in. I don't know if that indicates that hiring is picking pack up; just wanted to share my perspective.

Are you senior or higher role? And is it "general" software development (BE/FE/Full stack and even Mobile Apps included), sys/db admin or somewhat more buzzword things like ML/AI?

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#44
post #15

In the past few years, the software job market went from hot, to red-hot, to even hotter than that, back down to hot. I think people are comparing the current market to previous boomtimes which we all knew couldn't last.

That's a US centric view, right?

To be fair it probably depends on definition of how many years are "past few" years.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#45

Companies seem to be hiring and focusing on the short term, that is focused expertise that can hit the ground running, on a hard problem, right away. Certain fields seem to be more in demand than others (ML, infra, etc) - but to me the main pattern is companies caring more about short term gains than long term growth potential. So I think it sucks to be relatively junior right now. To me its sad as I think how well y…

Obviously for me too N = "too small of a sample size" to extrapolate on whole industry.

What I've seen/heard - is that companies are not hiring (have fewer if any open positions for) seniors.

And in my experience companies focusing on short term (so basically next quarterly earnings call), was always a thing - just that sometimes it was more and sometimes less extreme.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#46
post #23

What I would tell my younger self: above all, make good decisions: based on facts and solid reasoning grounded in a range of models of how the world is, paying particular attention to the magnitude of forces: respecting and using forces beyond your control, but always aiming to change the world around you to make you --us-- better. Not deciding based on feelings or opinions or votes, or on chasing opportunities or sh…

You really think that younger you would really understand that?

Or say your child?

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#47

I think from a games industry POV it's worse than 2008 right now. Beyond the raw numbers of layoffs, there's clearly a great number of other companies currently have hiring freezes on. There's simply little to no job postings on right now. Of course it's the worst time of year for listings, and things usually improve in Spring, but it's hard to be optimistic.

How come January is the worst? I thought it was among the best.

Big companies mostly work on quarterly (so earnings call) cycle.

Hence depending on general economic situation (and of course specific industry/company). And just like you might be getting sweet offers to change your insurance/ISP/etc, recruiters/head-hunters might be encouraged to hit their KPIs a bit higher the closer to end of quarter/half-year/new years it is.

Also bigger companies might reorg (both teams/people and change plans/KPIs which is usually known as pivot) around new years - for those same reasons.

With all of that - January/February is usually "Let's see how the latest course of course adjustment is going to play out".

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#48

Contrary to what most people on this site would say, for many, many years society has overproduced and overcompensated software developers for what they actually do. No other profession, besides maybe Law or Accounting gets higher compensation for making their work less efficient. We have frame works stacked on top of frame works when in many cases we could accomplish the same function, maybe faster 10-20 years ago,…

Sounds like USA centric POV?

It was not until several years ago that software developers in Europe finally reached the mythical 100K per year compensation range, that's been common in USA for more than a decade before that.

And that's in rather expensive Western Europe (e.g. €1500+ per month for one kid/toddler daycare), and not "cheaper" Southern/Eastern Europe.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#49

Contrary to what most people on this site would say, for many, many years society has overproduced and overcompensated software developers for what they actually do. No other profession, besides maybe Law or Accounting gets higher compensation for making their work less efficient. We have frame works stacked on top of frame works when in many cases we could accomplish the same function, maybe faster 10-20 years ago,…

Sounds like USA centric POV? It was not until several years ago that software developers in Europe finally reached the mythical 100K per year compensation range, that's been common in USA for more than a decade before that. And that's in rather expensive Western Europe (e.g. €1500+ per month for one kid/toddler daycare), and not "cheaper" Southern/Eastern Europe.

Every POV is USA centric. This is a USA web zone. Nowhere else matters.

Re: Ask HN: Is the job market is bad as everyone claims it is?

#50
post #16

Anecdotally, I received 2-3 messages from recruiters almost daily during 2020-2021 (ended up taking a job from one in 2021). I didn't hear anything from recruiters from 2022 until about 2 weeks ago -- now they're starting to trickle back in. I don't know if that indicates that hiring is picking pack up; just wanted to share my perspective.

Are you senior or higher role? And is it "general" software development (BE/FE/Full stack and even Mobile Apps included), sys/db admin or somewhat more buzzword things like ML/AI?

I am in a senior role, previously full-stack developer, tech director, and now embedded software.
Post reply on HN