Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Slowly Losing Interest in Software Engineering, should I be worried?

news.ycombinator.com

41–48 of 48 posts

Re: Ask HN: Slowly Losing Interest in Software Engineering, should I be worried?

#41

I've also gone in and out of software dev (don't really consider myself an engineer), with gaps of several years or longer in between. I did it part time for half a decade, full time for about a decade, and I'm back to part time now. Other jobs in between were both enjoyable in and of themselves, but also made me see dev work in a different light. Namely, that it's super cushy but pretty soulless, lol. Definitely not…

Would you mind to expand on what do you mean by soulless?

When I was still in college I got an internship at a local startup. One day, the other SWE and I went to lunch with a former coworker of the other SWE, and he told a story about how he worked on a team for YEARS that ended up not creating anything of value. I forget if the software just wasn’t needed in the end or what, but I remember thinking “damn, that must be really rare”… fast forward 8 years, I’ve now been on a similar team. The job was lax as fuck, like I worked maybe 8 hours A WEEK, but it was still somehow soul-crushing. What little work I did do, I knew it was garbage and wouldn’t live to see production use. The team was laid off a few months ago and I assume the code is in the garbage. Somehow I wish I worked even less than I did.

Re: Ask HN: Slowly Losing Interest in Software Engineering, should I be worried?

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind to expand on what do you mean by soulless?

Sure, but this is just my opinion. Part of it is what diarrhea said in a sibling response: Having minimal meaningful human interaction. Scrum meetings with your owners and such don't really count. If anything, those are worse than not having social interactions, lol. We're cloistered plumbers working in the dark crevices of systems most people don't want to touch or know about, and it's pretty much always a conversat…

Software engineering today reminds me of how the 80s were with stock trading. Lots of money getting thrown around and blown on stupid shit, and then seemingly overnight the credit crisis tightens belts and computers make the trading floors of NYSE and others obsolete. They were getting paid stupid amounts of money because the work they did was making someone higher up EVEN STUPIDER amounts of money. Just like the tech industry today. Google SWEs make $300k/year because the CEO is making some comparable-to-their-level multiple of that. In this case, the shareholders are paying the SWEs through stock options because they speculate Google shares will appreciate even more. History will probably reward those who sold their GOOG when it vested.

Re: Ask HN: Slowly Losing Interest in Software Engineering, should I be worried?

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind to expand on what do you mean by soulless?

Sure, but this is just my opinion. Part of it is what diarrhea said in a sibling response: Having minimal meaningful human interaction. Scrum meetings with your owners and such don't really count. If anything, those are worse than not having social interactions, lol. We're cloistered plumbers working in the dark crevices of systems most people don't want to touch or know about, and it's pretty much always a conversat…

Fascinating re the Chinese govt thing. Can you talk more about that? What dissidents? Did they buy the software? Did you find out any of this stuff?

Re: Ask HN: Slowly Losing Interest in Software Engineering, should I be worried?

#44
The great thing about tech is the vast array of fields within it.

Writing embedded firmware for space rockets is light years (pun intended, haha) from a fast paced scrappy startup. Neither is better than the other to anyone but yourself.

Perhaps finding a purpose to put your skills to might help?

Re: Ask HN: Slowly Losing Interest in Software Engineering, should I be worried?

#45
People change over time.

I graduated college absolutely certain I would be a day trader on Wall Street for the rest of my life.

And I did that for about 7 years.

But 5 years in or so I started to realize I didn’t quite like it. I actually was more interested in writing code to solve my trading problems. But what really appealed to me there was the writing code bit.

It took about a full year of my mini identity crisis for me to realize, there were other jobs out there I could enjoy. And the career my 20 year old self had picked wasn’t my ultimate path.

It’s OK to change directions.

Continue to reflect on what you want for yourself. Don’t try to predict too far out because it will likely change. But think about the next year or three, where do you want to be?

Once you have a rough idea in mind you can think backwards about what steps are needed to get there.

Hang in there, self reflection is tough but very worthwhile.

Your previous experience absolutely has and will NOT go to waste. I can’t tell you how many times my finance experience has helped me at my software jobs or just in life.

While it may not be directly related to your new job, that experience is there, helping you in more ways than you realize.

Re: Ask HN: Slowly Losing Interest in Software Engineering, should I be worried?

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this is just my opinion. Part of it is what diarrhea said in a sibling response: Having minimal meaningful human interaction. Scrum meetings with your owners and such don't really count. If anything, those are worse than not having social interactions, lol. We're cloistered plumbers working in the dark crevices of systems most people don't want to touch or know about, and it's pretty much always a conversat…

Software engineering today reminds me of how the 80s were with stock trading. Lots of money getting thrown around and blown on stupid shit, and then seemingly overnight the credit crisis tightens belts and computers make the trading floors of NYSE and others obsolete. They were getting paid stupid amounts of money because the work they did was making someone higher up EVEN STUPIDER amounts of money. Just like the tec…

Exactly

Re: Ask HN: Slowly Losing Interest in Software Engineering, should I be worried?

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this is just my opinion. Part of it is what diarrhea said in a sibling response: Having minimal meaningful human interaction. Scrum meetings with your owners and such don't really count. If anything, those are worse than not having social interactions, lol. We're cloistered plumbers working in the dark crevices of systems most people don't want to touch or know about, and it's pretty much always a conversat…

Fascinating re the Chinese govt thing. Can you talk more about that? What dissidents? Did they buy the software? Did you find out any of this stuff?

TLDR they developed a server-side spam classification tool and tried to sell it to US ISPs but couldn't find buyers. Eventually someone from China reached out and told them the government might be interested. The founder was really excited about the prospect and told us about it. I was really upset with him and resigned the next day. Don't know what happened after that =/ The company is no more, though was apparently involved in a series of investor scandals for several years after I left. It's not clear to me if China ever actually bought it. Doesn't seem to be in the public record, at least.

----------

Here's the longer narrative, if you really want more details. This was nearly 20 years ago, so my memory is foggy, but...

The technology was essentially bulk message classification at the ISP/mail server level (though could be adapted to SMS carriers), clustering together similar messages through several statistical techniques, like looking for similarities in the message bodies and headers. They filed a bunch of patents and was making a MVP to try to sell the tech directly to ISPs.

A couple years in, they weren't getting any bites -- this was also right around the time Gmail first came out and really "disrupted" the email space, so poor timing -- and I think the investors were getting concerned.

I remember one morning, we were standing outside in the garden (our office was just a repurposed residential home in a suburb of Los Angeles). It was a beautiful day and one of the founders had good news to share about a possible sales lead. He was glowing with excitement and mentioned that some of his contacts in China had expressed interest in the technology, on behalf of the government there. This was around the time the Great Firewall was being developed, so maybe that was part of the draw (my speculation).

I blinked, surprised. Up to that moment, the founder seemed like a perfectly normal, bright, wizened old sys-admin type geek. Imagine Richard Stallman, but in a business suit. I looked up to him. It was hard to reconcile the idea that man I had worked for the last couple years, who treated us all well and always had a smile and a joke handy, was about to sell us all out.

My (flawed) recollection of the convo:

"Wait, what? You're... you're going to sell the technology to China? Not to an email provider there, but the government itself...?"

"Yeah! This tech could easily scale up to millions, hundreds of millions of users. It's exactly what they're looking for. I was thinking too small before. Why sell to one ISP at a time when an entire government of a billion people could use it?"

"But... but you know they're just going to use it to monitor and block their citizens, right?!"

I think that caught him a bit off-guard, maybe even slightly offended. "Well, yeah, maybe. But if we don't do it, someone else will. We're just selling tools. We can't control how they use it."

It was a major WTF moment for me. "No, how could you, as an American, purposely contribute to something like this?! Don't you care about human rights at ALL? You have two kids of your own at home, growing up under the protection of a liberal democracy. There are kids in China who will never know what that's like, and you are actively subverting their future. What will you tell your kids when they grow up? That Dad sold out his entire company and all his morals to the first convenient buyer? This is not ok." I was like 21 then, pretty naive and idealistic, and this was my first real professional confrontation with a higher-up (who's also the CEO).

I don't remember what he said in response. I walked away, fuming, and resigned the next morning. Disillusioned, I unfortunately stopped keeping track of the company's affairs, and I don't know if China ever actually bought it.

Looking up the company twenty years later, they've apparently abandoned all their patents, and pissed off a bunch of investors who felt misled. The website is no more. Probably it was just another failed dot-com startup, unless they went to great lengths to hide their sales to China, but that seems too conspiratorial.

Shrug. As an older adult, I don't think too much of this incident any longer. It's probably par for the course for US tech businesses wanting to do business in China. Some sell out, others pull out, but in the end they all have their price, and they all choose their battles. But 21 year old me wasn't OK with that (I still wouldn't be), and left what was otherwise a really great internship. The people there treated me well, I learned a lot and had a ton of fun with them. I want to believe that the whole thing was just a dumb misguided idea from a desperate CEO, needing the money after several failed sales leads, and not some elaborate ploy to develop censoring tech specifically for China. I dunno. These days, censoring tech is everywhere, both in the East and the West, and technologies like this probably aren't that special anymore anyway.

That's all...

Re: Ask HN: Slowly Losing Interest in Software Engineering, should I be worried?

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating re the Chinese govt thing. Can you talk more about that? What dissidents? Did they buy the software? Did you find out any of this stuff?

TLDR they developed a server-side spam classification tool and tried to sell it to US ISPs but couldn't find buyers. Eventually someone from China reached out and told them the government might be interested. The founder was really excited about the prospect and told us about it. I was really upset with him and resigned the next day. Don't know what happened after that =/ The company is no more, though was apparently…

Thanks man. Read it all with great interest. I think you made the right call. I’ve heard similar cases to this.
Post reply on HN