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Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

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Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#41

Post by atomicnumber3 »

riku_iki wrote: post #29

why would you need to say explicitly that you were laid off? You can just say in resume: Apr 2018 - May 2023: For-paycheck spaghetti code refactoring engineer in Large Boring Corp May 2023 - current: founder and principal AI/crypto/quantum/whatever hacker in nextcoolthing.com

Yeah. And even if your last month listed coincides with a public layoff announcement, there are lots of people who jump ship very shortly after a layoff because being a survivor isn't much fun either. I know several people whose well-loved manager got laid off and they literally told me "yeah she's the only reason I could tolerate it here, I'm out." Talk about squad goals.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#42

Post by riku_iki »

atomicnumber3 wrote: post #41
riku_iki wrote: post #29

why would you need to say explicitly that you were laid off? You can just say in resume: Apr 2018 - May 2023: For-paycheck spaghetti code refactoring engineer in Large Boring Corp May 2023 - current: founder and principal AI/crypto/quantum/whatever hacker in nextcoolthing.com

Yeah. And even if your last month listed coincides with a public layoff announcement, there are lots of people who jump ship very shortly after a layoff because being a survivor isn't much fun either. I know several people whose well-loved manager got laid off and they literally told me "yeah she's the only reason I could tolerate it here, I'm out." Talk about squad goals.

> And even if your last month listed coincides with a public layoff announcement

I doubt people remember all these dates for a long time.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#43

Post by sillysaurusx »

lbotos wrote: post #38

As someone who hires people -- If your resume says "Company A 2020-2023, Project Blah, 2023-X" I'll ask you to tell me about the project. If you have something to show for it, then I see no problem. If I say what's Project Blah and you don't have anything to talk about or to show for it then I have questions. I have a friend right now who left Amazon and they are working on a side project. It's actually a great resum…

What if I tell you “played Tears of the Kingdom for six months”? I’m quite serious; not only am I on month two, but many peoples’ side projects are a way to recover from burnout. The trouble is, they don’t realize they need to recover, so they disguise them as side projects — often disguising them from themselves, too.

I point this out to make you reconsider a bit whether you might be putting pressure in the wrong place. It’s an easy mistake to make, and one I’ve made many times.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#44

Post by caminante »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #43
lbotos wrote: post #38

As someone who hires people -- If your resume says "Company A 2020-2023, Project Blah, 2023-X" I'll ask you to tell me about the project. If you have something to show for it, then I see no problem. If I say what's Project Blah and you don't have anything to talk about or to show for it then I have questions. I have a friend right now who left Amazon and they are working on a side project. It's actually a great resum…

What if I tell you “played Tears of the Kingdom for six months”? I’m quite serious; not only am I on month two, but many peoples’ side projects are a way to recover from burnout. The trouble is, they don’t realize they need to recover, so they disguise them as side projects — often disguising them from themselves, too. I point this out to make you reconsider a bit whether you might be putting pressure in the wrong pl…

I disagree with needing something to show for it, but I think the intent of the comment above was to frame as a positive "story" and promote yourself.

I was laid off and was looking is an acceptable answer. Discretionary quitting and shitting on your prior employer is a red flag.

Larger companies' hiring process is all about de-risking you and screening out problems. They can only de-risk so much based on a resume, and it's more rare to have someone with 10+ years and zero gaps.

If a job candidate responded that they spent time between jobs playing TOTK without some levity layered on, I'd be concerned and ask further questions to see if they're a flight risk or in the right head space to join my team.

It's a yellow flag to me.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#45

Post by sillysaurusx »

caminante wrote: post #44
sillysaurusx wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I tell you “played Tears of the Kingdom for six months”? I’m quite serious; not only am I on month two, but many peoples’ side projects are a way to recover from burnout. The trouble is, they don’t realize they need to recover, so they disguise them as side projects — often disguising them from themselves, too. I point this out to make you reconsider a bit whether you might be putting pressure in the wrong pl…

I disagree with needing something to show for it, but I think the intent of the comment above was to frame as a positive "story" and promote yourself. I was laid off and was looking is an acceptable answer. Discretionary quitting and shitting on your prior employer is a red flag. Larger companies' hiring process is all about de-risking you and screening out problems. They can only de-risk so much based on a resume, a…

Interesting. Why?

The trouble with this kind of situation is that you’ll have to pull apart two forces: one, the underlying assumption that most employees won’t leave within a couple years anyway (“flight risk”) and two, that something matters beyond whether someone is capable of doing their job professionally. “Head space” pries a bit far into someone’s personal life.

It’s a business transaction. Attempting to frame it as more than that always struck me as strange.

But! Being able to agree to disagree is part of the equation — the wonderful thing about companies is that there are so many of them, and it only takes one empathetic hiring manager to recognize skill rather than feelings.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#46

Post by gargablegar »

People don’t always need to be working.

If you have a gap and it’s filled with something you building that’s not an issue.

You can clearly explain you had saving and wanted to peruse an idea you had.

It’ll be something to talk about and shows initiative. If you explaining it in an interview it would have not worked out and from that perspective you can share your lessons learned in product or technical development.

Even if you say I saved cash and stopped working for a break - that’s ok.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#47

Post by caminante »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #45
caminante wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with needing something to show for it, but I think the intent of the comment above was to frame as a positive "story" and promote yourself. I was laid off and was looking is an acceptable answer. Discretionary quitting and shitting on your prior employer is a red flag. Larger companies' hiring process is all about de-risking you and screening out problems. They can only de-risk so much based on a resume, a…

Interesting. Why? The trouble with this kind of situation is that you’ll have to pull apart two forces: one, the underlying assumption that most employees won’t leave within a couple years anyway (“flight risk”) and two, that something matters beyond whether someone is capable of doing their job professionally. “Head space” pries a bit far into someone’s personal life. It’s a business transaction. Attempting to frame…

>“Head space” pries a bit far into someone’s personal life.

> it only takes one empathetic hiring manager to recognize skill rather than feelings.

IMHO, you're overlooking the obvious.

I can't possibly go into the back corners of your mind during an interview process. But, I can get some datapoints on your headspace with how you compose responses about your profile and story.

My point is candidates need to sell themselves and take some risks on how to present themselves to their employer. All else equal, positive framing is better and increases your chances of getting hired at "more" of the "many" companies.

Good luck on finding your next career step.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#48

Post by cushychicken »

I did what you're asking about, and it worked out just fine for me.

You don't have to tell anyone that your decision to pursue your other project was partially due to being laid off. It is not dishonest to just not bring it up. (Contrary to what some interviewers and interviewees seem to think, it is not your obligation to share every shred of detail about your life and work circumstances to your prospective employer.)

I ended up taking another job after about a year of working in my side project and consulting. I was able to talk openly about what I'd learned doing both of those things, and it didn't hamper my job prospects in the slightest.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#49

Post by sillysaurusx »

caminante wrote: post #47
sillysaurusx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Why? The trouble with this kind of situation is that you’ll have to pull apart two forces: one, the underlying assumption that most employees won’t leave within a couple years anyway (“flight risk”) and two, that something matters beyond whether someone is capable of doing their job professionally. “Head space” pries a bit far into someone’s personal life. It’s a business transaction. Attempting to frame…

>“Head space” pries a bit far into someone’s personal life. > it only takes one empathetic hiring manager to recognize skill rather than feelings. IMHO, you're overlooking the obvious. I can't possibly go into the back corners of your mind during an interview process. But, I can get some datapoints on your headspace with how you compose responses about your profile and story. My point is candidates need to sell thems…

Haha, I didn’t mean me. I’m an ML researcher. Thank you though.

I think it’s fine to agree to disagree. I talked with my hiring manager friend and she said one of their strongest hires said he hasn’t been doing shit for the prior year, and that he’d been super burned out after his last job. She said cool, what do you want to do now? And the rest was history.

Your philosophy does cause you to miss out on strong candidates, though.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

#50

Post by K0balt »

Nah, that won’t hurt anything unless one of your future employers requirements include low personal initiative and extremely high risk aversion.

I strongly recommend following your passions and interests above all other considerations. Just be sure to set your projects up for fast, clean failure if they aren’t viable, nothing wastes more time than failing to violently pivot when needed. Learn what you came to learn and if it isn’t financially sustainable, apply your new knowledge to the next project.

You won’t spend your sunset years wishing you had done less of the things you wanted to do. Regret is the real enemy, discomfort and struggle are stepping stones.

My$.02 as an oldster with 40+ years mostly self entertained in tech with a lot of failures and a few successes in the rearview. The only things I regret are some risks not taken, tbh.

If I have advice that I think missing could nuke your chances of success in life it would be:

Establish a point of retreat in an inexpensive place to live. A home of your own, somewhere in the world, where the cost of living is very low. It should be an economical and simple home with low maintenance requirements, in a place that brings you a sense of serenity. Being able to duck out and work on something without having to worry about significant costs has been critical to my freedom to choose my destiny. That and having a partner that is not adverse to adversity in the name of advancement, if you choose to have a life partner.

Best of fortune with your project!

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