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Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

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41–50 of 62 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

#41
post #8
post #6

> "You can’t just train an LLM with more and more parameters and more and more tokens and expect it to be smarter than the data it was trained on." This is wrong. I saw so many people who think this though, even smart people. But it's just clearly not true if you think about it. It's like saying that you can't train a model to predict a trend from a scatter plot because the model can't be smarter than the average poi…

Even if the statement were true, the data that these models are trained on is, collectively, smarter than the smartest person who ever lived. An individual person simply cannot absorb, in an 80-year-or-so lifetime, even a tiny fraction of the amount of information contained in the training data. It is a truly mind-boggling amount of data. The most frightening thing is that, even with pretty naive and primitive algori…

Even if the statement were true, the data that these models are trained on is, collectively, smarter than the smartest person who ever lived.

"Smarter" in a horizontal sense. But not vertical.

The latter being what people really mean by "smarter". You know, that thinking-outside-the-box stuff.

That's why LLMs aren't able to "solve" problems that don't have existing writeups somewhere (beyond certain problems more or less equivalent to combinatorial search). Or produce text useful beyond the mild amusement level (or for spam and/or research fraud -- at which it of course excels quite brilliantly).

And still trips over itself narratively, left, right and center. And still makes all kind of cute-sounding, and superficially correct (but ultimately misleading) pronouncements about the world that a true expert would never make.

Taking an example from a recent NYT article: "Give me some useful mnemonics for learning Spanish" (paraphrased slightly):

   Hola:  "Hola, cola" - sounds like "cola" (Coke)
   Adiós: "Adiós, my toes" - rhymes with "toes"
   Gracias: "Gracias, grassy ass" - sounds like "grassy ass"
   Mañana: "Mañana, banana" - rhymes with "banana"
   Uno: "Uno, you know" - sounds like "you know"
   Tres: "Tres, dress" - rhymes with "dress"
As everyone who knows Spanish knows -- none of these really rhymes in Spanish (and if you try actually speaking these words (except the sfollowing the templates given, you'll get laughed pretty quickly). But they're certainly cute, and astonishingly impressive.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

#43

It's not only Hinton but Yoshua Bengio too that wrote a great article that was downvoted in olbivion here while he has the higher h-index in computer sciece right now. Should make you suspicious tht there is some psychological bias among tech right now because the alternative is very scary. This bias is called normalcy bias.

Getting downvoted? Schmidhuber did it first :)

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

#44

I think most people are just seeing the speed of (seemingly) progress as a direction to AGI. But we are far from it. Though maybe we are seeing something interesting in linear world models recently emerging. But my guess is gradual progress and then all of a sudden we will have AGI. But that first part will take 20-30 years. at least.

But 2 out of 3 scientists that created the tech you are talking about disagree with you. Makes you wonder if..?

This is a strange way to count, the three Turing award winners are not the ones that "created the tech". Many thousands of people did that.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

#45
ChatGPT can map one situation over another, like when you ask it to tell a story in the style of x or y.

Basically that means that in the training of predicting the next token, gpt HAD to come up with some internal way of “modeling” such situation and “render” it.

This ability to model and apply the model to something else could very well be the core building block of general thinking.

Additionally, the progresses in AI have been shockingly higher than expected. That computers would beat go and the turing test was completely unrealistic ten years ago. We can’t rule out that AGI isn’t around the corner.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

#46
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's very rare when someone is impressed when the model is generating text based in something they do understand deeply. This statement sounds out of date. And you can see this sentiment a lot on HN. I don’t know if the people who say this haven’t tried GPT-4 or they have and are just stubbornly refusing to change their mind about something when presented with new evidence.

> s haven’t tried GPT-4 or they have and are just stubbornly refusing to change their mind about something when presented with new evidence. Have you considered that the evidence just isn't convincing yet? If you view popular llms as text prediction machines, they are in fact much better than spell check or auto correct from a few years ago. But if you actually ask it to solve the problem with nuance it will not use…

It’s amazing how easily people are fooled into thinking something is intelligent. I met Stephen Hawking once and asked him how to slice video with ffmpeg. He didn’t have a clue! Obviously he isn’t an intelligent person. Yet so many people think he is smart.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

#47

> sober voices as Geoffrey Hinton sounding the alarm about super-smart AI Can someone please explain to me what exactly the danger is / the dangers are of "super-intelligent" AI? AIUI, an AI is a combination of hardware, software and parametrization. In broad terms, it exists as a black box which supplies to humans responses to token sets fed to it. Even if an AI has the launch codes for ICBMs somewhere in its traini…

> Even if an AI has the launch codes for ICBMs somewhere in its training data, it doesn't have an interface to the nearest missile silo to use them. It cannot commandeer the resources (hardware, space, cooling, electricity) it needs to operate, it is dependent on humans to supply those.

How do you know the AI doesn’t have an interface to the middle silo?

Are there no military systems that are connected to the internet?

Is the power grid connected to the internet? How about our water filtration system?

I’m not worried that gpt4 is going to start launching missiles, but I also don’t understand where the certainty comes from that it isn’t possible for an internet connected AI to launch missiles.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

#48
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the statement were true, the data that these models are trained on is, collectively, smarter than the smartest person who ever lived. An individual person simply cannot absorb, in an 80-year-or-so lifetime, even a tiny fraction of the amount of information contained in the training data. It is a truly mind-boggling amount of data. The most frightening thing is that, even with pretty naive and primitive algori…

Even if the statement were true, the data that these models are trained on is, collectively, smarter than the smartest person who ever lived. "Smarter" in a horizontal sense. But not vertical. The latter being what people really mean by "smarter". You know, that thinking-outside-the-box stuff. That's why LLMs aren't able to "solve" problems that don't have existing writeups somewhere (beyond certain problems more or…

>That's why LLMs aren't able to "solve" problems that don't have existing writeups somewhere (beyond certain problems more or less equivalent to combinatorial search).

Neither can humans. We create by analogy; "thinking outside the box" just means making less obvious (but still valid) analogies.

>Or produce text useful beyond the mild amusement level (or for spam and/or research fraud -- at which it of course excels quite brilliantly).

People are using LLMs very effectively for writing news reports, opinion articles, legal summaries, and computer code. It's already gone well beyond "mild amusement." There's a reason many companies have had to adopt policies regarding LLMs at work: people are already using them at work.

And sure, LLMs still make lots of mistakes. But they are already better writers than the vast majority of humans, and as I noted, the algorithms being applied are pretty simple yet.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://yoshuabengio.org/2023/05/22/how-rogue-ais-may-arise/

Thank you for the reference. Its author defines a "rogue AI" as: "an autonomous AI system that could behave in ways that would be catastrophically harmful to a large fraction of humans, potentially endangering our societies and even our species or the biosphere" and explains that it would also need to be goal-directed in a way which would be at odds with human wellbeing. Stipulating all that, what is still missing is…

> How is it supposed to affect the world outside its computing substrate? Absent humans making available the interfaces and resources to do so, it can't.

This would be more reassuring if hooking it up to a Python prompt wasn't virtually the first thing people did.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many assume we’re on the cusp of super-intelligent AI?

#50
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched some flat earthers in debates, and they seemed to revel in their freedom to not be impressed by their opponents arguments. It seemed like a kind of rush for them, like a kind of power trip, that was more intense the stronger their opponents arguments. Like a kind of 'no matter how strong your argument is you can't make me agree with you' power trip.

I don't mean to imply that I'm attempting to not be impressed. Before writing the comment you replied to, I asked a friend who is enamored by the new abilities how I would know my mental model for how it works, and what it's able to do is wrong. If I'm wrong, missing something, or making a mistake. I'd like to know about it. Outside of that, the context for the whole discussion is > Why do so many assume we’re on the…

I guess what I'm supposed to do in 2023 in USA if I have a prediction, like a prediction that increasing params+flops+dataset LLM training will keep unlocking new cognitive capabilities, is to make money from it by doing some kind of investment. I don't know how to do it though. The obvious suggestions are like TSMC, NVIDIA, an AI-specific portfolio, etc. but I'm not confident that those would be good investments for unrelated reasons even though I am confident in my prediction.
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