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Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

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Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#41
I've been working in this field for about 15 years, mostly full stack but focus on frontend. In the past couple of years I've been making this transition from individual contributor/senior developer to a team lead and manager role.

For me, what has worked CONSISTENTLY are 3 things:

1. Take initiative: I can't stress this enough. If you act like a team lead, people will recognize you. And if they don't, you should consider whether this is somewhere you want to be. An organization that doesn't help build its talent, is not one where you will accomplish your personal growth objectives.

2. Speak to your Manager: Assuming you are doing #1, make sure that your manager(s) are aware of your career goals. You need to get "buyin" from others in the organization that are able to carve out this kind of role for you. They will also have good advice for you. Not every manager/team lead role is the same, so YMMV in this regard. It may be that there's a bigger need for a people manager vs a technical manager.

3. Stay at a company for 3+ years: The number might be different, but in my experience this is the point, after which you have been around enough time to have been involved in many different projects. Not only will you know a lot of the tech stack and it's limitations, you will also understand MUCH of the business itself. You'll have positioned yourself at the intersection of the business and the technology, and become an indispensable part of the organization.

One of the companies I worked at was a personal finance startup, and over the years I learned so much about saving, spending, credit, loans, income and investing IN ADDITION TO the technology we were building and everything that was powering it, that I was asked to be a part of nearly every discussion.

Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#42

The quickest way up the management ladder for a coder is to be enthusiastic, productive, and incompetent. Your teammates will move heaven and earth to promote you into leadership as a way to reduce your blast radius.

I hear this kind of response some times, but I don't agree with it. If you're being tongue in cheek, then I'm missing it, but if you're serious, then this is precisely why many managers are bad.

It also runs counter to my experience. I don't think people deliberately promote people who are incompetent in order to "get them out of the way". People are smarter than that, as it only pushes bad people into management.

If we want better managers, then we should move heaven and earth to get the best people who understand the needs of both technical and organizational constraints and who can communicate and coordinate effectively.

Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#43
You become a lead by being employed as an IC in an organization large enough to have leads (so, not where you are now). Having made that move, just exhibit behavior that leads to your bosses deciding that you'd make a good (or at least...the least worst) lead. Then wait a bit.

Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people do all of that naturally. Lucky them. Others don't, and it's a journey to adjust. You don't need to be a "natural", but if you aren't you need to learn to behave like one before you can credibly go into a leadership position. Nicely put, but can be also considered as a warning. If it doesn't come "naturally" to you, do you really want a leadership role? You will need to learn, fake and struggle to achie…

I hate this sort of logic. Sounds far too much like social darwinism. Sometimes things that are worth doing are hard.

> Sometimes things that are worth doing are hard.

I said that in my comment already, if for you, it's not worth doing it, don't do it. The unwritten assumption is that you should do it if it's worth it to you, even if it's hard.

Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#45
A number of people have recommended good books. So i'll maybe drop a few pieces of advice that I've learned while managing a diverse group of ~35 people.

* Listen to the people who report to you. They aren't always right, but they often are, and if they are pushing back then there is a good chance that they might be seeing something you don't.

* Much of leadership is about communication. And much of communication is about planning. And much of planning is about knowing and understanding all the components of the problem you're trying to solve. So cultivate a deep understanding of your people, their talents, your business, your boss, and spend time thinking about how to best optimize all those things.

* Its hard to lead in an area where you don't some expertise. You don't have to be the best, but you shouldn't be a slouch in the subject matter either. In order to earn respect you'll need to be able to understand what you're being told by your team, and you'll need to be able to articulate why you are making certain decisions, and that is seriously difficult if you don't have a good understanding of the domain.

* Good task management and organization is remarkably similar to good distributed systems architecture. Teams should be organized so that communication and integration dependencies are minimized, because communication overhead grows logarithmically as the number of people who need to be informed increases.

not nearly a complete list... but a start maybe. good luck! good leaders/managers are a scarce resource.

Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#46

For reading, I'd recommend everything from Will Larson ( https://lethain.com ). As for attitude and behaviours for making the jump, it's a combination of actively looking for opportunities (that's the easy part), and positioning yourself as someone who is an obvious choice for such a position, which is basically when you consistently have an attitude and reputation of total ownership, supporting others, never complai…

> Some people do all of that naturally. Lucky them. Others don't, and it's a journey to adjust. You don't need to be a "natural", but if you aren't you need to learn to behave like one before you can credibly go into a leadership position. Nicely put, but can be also considered as a warning. If it doesn't come "naturally" to you, do you really want a leadership role? You will need to learn, fake and struggle to achie…

Got news for you. Being a good leader or manager doesn’t come natural to anyone out of the gate. Sure some people have certain advantageous traits, but they probably aren’t what you think they are. For instance, you might assume charisma and confidence are important, but they can backfire and leave your reputation in tatters if you don’t have a high level of foundational knowledge and experience-honed judgement. The actual ingredients to a leadership personality are more subtle and something a young person is often ill-equipped to judge in themselves. Don’t box people in.

Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#47

I've been working in this field for about 15 years, mostly full stack but focus on frontend. In the past couple of years I've been making this transition from individual contributor/senior developer to a team lead and manager role. For me, what has worked CONSISTENTLY are 3 things: 1. Take initiative: I can't stress this enough. If you act like a team lead, people will recognize you. And if they don't, you should con…

+1 to all of these, especially #1.

A lot of companies will have a career doc that lists expectations for each role. Take a look at the manager version and make sure it is actually something you want to do and then start doing some of those things. For example - lead a small group on a project, mentor someone who needs help, implement a change that will improve team health, reduce chaos on a project, align stakeholders, etc.

Tell your manager you’d like to explore that career path and frequently ask them what they need help with. If you don’t have a good relationship with your current manager, you may consider finding a new one who will help you grow. Look for a manager that is ambitious and looking to develop someone they can delegate to and you can ride their wave.

Everywhere I’ve worked in the last 20 years has needed strong managers, including startups and FAANGS. If you’re slightly patient and show some signal of readiness an opportunity will arise.

Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#48
Easiest way to become a manager is to work somewhere that is growing rapidly. If you do a good job and lead projects, as well as work with your manager closely on it as a goal and please key stakeholders, then you should be able to take a new EM role when it opens up. It’s even easier if the team you’re working on as an IC grows enough to split (usually ~8 eng).

Just make sure you’re very explicit about this goal when interviewing / in your 1:1s. The reality is that the ratio of eng to manager means there are just less positions available. So you want to make sure you’re not wasting your time interviewing / working somewhere that just isn’t going to have the opportunity for you.

Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#49
post #16

Have a good long think about why you want a management role. It is very different, despite the fact that if you become good at a contributor role you often just get promoted into management (I did). If you like mentoring people, sharing knowledge, delegating tasks (yes, even the tech work you love) and dealing with things blocking the team like politics with other departments then go for it. It can be rewarding but i…

Don’t forget ALL the meetings

Re: Ask HN: How to move from dev role to management/team lead role?

#50

For reading, I'd recommend everything from Will Larson ( https://lethain.com ). As for attitude and behaviours for making the jump, it's a combination of actively looking for opportunities (that's the easy part), and positioning yourself as someone who is an obvious choice for such a position, which is basically when you consistently have an attitude and reputation of total ownership, supporting others, never complai…

> Some people do all of that naturally. Lucky them. Others don't, and it's a journey to adjust. You don't need to be a "natural", but if you aren't you need to learn to behave like one before you can credibly go into a leadership position. Nicely put, but can be also considered as a warning. If it doesn't come "naturally" to you, do you really want a leadership role? You will need to learn, fake and struggle to achie…

I actually think it's absolutely fine to not be a natural and still want it, and that the comparison to a physical talent isn't perfect, because in something as complex as engineering management you can really get very good even if you don't have the natural aptitude, whereas if you are too short to play on the NBA, you won't play on the NBA no matter how hard you practice. You're right though that it's worth thinking if it's really what you want, or it just looks good on others. And then sometimes the only way to find out is by giving it a try.
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