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Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

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Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#41

Post by kqr »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #35

Heck, I still use stuff I picked up from Writing Solid Code. That book hasn’t aged as well, but it had some parts that are still quite relevant, today. I always thought that Rapid Development was better than Code Complete . I’ve probably read all of McConnell’s stuff (and I’ve taken a lot of Construx courses). At one time, I was quite the fanboi. A lot of folks around here don’t seem to like him, which I find odd.

I liked /Rapid Development/ too. It misses out on things like the Unix philosophy and worse-is-better, which are sort of previous incarnations of the agile/lean stuff that is very popular today.

I would assume the author just hadn't had much exposure to those ideas so they weren't even considered for inclusion. (Besides, they tend to not be researched so actively because they don't leave as many paper trails.)

Other than that gripe, though, I learned a lot from it!

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#42

Post by _0xik »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #29
_0xik wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is: Why do we not *update* these books? This gets back into the question of copyright of course.

Because then we lose any sense of historical context. Old books at their essence lets us talk to people from the past. We won't always like what they have to say, but they will speak about themselves and highlight how we've changed. If we can't understand where we came from, then we can't hope to understand how we got where we are.

What? Tons of books get new editions. It happens constantly. For example, Strunk & White [0] has been updated in 1918, 1959, 1999, and 2009. Authors release different versions of their own books. I just wrote a review of a book [1] that had a 2nd edition released in 2022 after the first edition was released in 2014. J.R.R. Tolkein retconned The Hobbit after publication of Lord of the Rings. [2] (I realize this isn't really the same thing but I wanted to give an example in fiction)

Anyway, point is, tons of books are changed after publication. I don't see why The Mythical Man Month shouldn't be; the technology is out of date and the gender issues are out of date.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Style

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Everybody-Writes-Improved-Go-Ridiculo...

[2] https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2012/12/13/how-jrr-tolkien-pull...

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#43

Post by azangru »

fooker wrote: post #38
gjadi wrote: post #13

I read it last year and I think it's still relevant. I had planned to write on the topic. In his book, Steve McConnell advocates for PPP = Pseudocode Programming Process Basically, he says you should outlines the structure of your code first, before writing your actual code. IMHO this is even more relevant in the age of AI assisted programming. Pseudocode Programming Process is becoming Prompt Programming Process. Th…

Does anyone actually do this? I have never seen people write pseudo code as part of the programming process. Diagrams, comments, tests, stubs sure, but never really pseudo code.

Sometimes, for some confusing piece of functionality that I am developing, I would write pseudocode in a comment first to see whether it makes sense; and would use it as an outline for implementing the feature. I've found it useful. I've never read Code Complete though :-)

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#44

Post by jenscow »

shubhamjain wrote: post #18

Most likely no! Do you really need to read a 900 page book to understand how to write good code? There might be nuggets of wisdom here and there, but you'll most likely pick them on your own as you code and grow. Problem with these books is that you tend to over-apply whatever you read. You read the fact that configurations are good, so you create a nest of abstractions to make code configurable, even when it doesn't…

I know what you mean, but that's not really the fault of a book.

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#46

Post by marginalia_nu »

_0xik wrote: post #42
marginalia_nu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because then we lose any sense of historical context. Old books at their essence lets us talk to people from the past. We won't always like what they have to say, but they will speak about themselves and highlight how we've changed. If we can't understand where we came from, then we can't hope to understand how we got where we are.

What? Tons of books get new editions. It happens constantly. For example, Strunk & White [0] has been updated in 1918, 1959, 1999, and 2009. Authors release different versions of their own books. I just wrote a review of a book [1] that had a 2nd edition released in 2022 after the first edition was released in 2014. J.R.R. Tolkein retconned The Hobbit after publication of Lord of the Rings. [2] (I realize this isn't…

Technical revisions, sure. At the same time books re-published to align with the political zeitgeist rarely tend to age particularly well.

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#47

Post by gjadi »

fooker wrote: post #38
gjadi wrote: post #13

I read it last year and I think it's still relevant. I had planned to write on the topic. In his book, Steve McConnell advocates for PPP = Pseudocode Programming Process Basically, he says you should outlines the structure of your code first, before writing your actual code. IMHO this is even more relevant in the age of AI assisted programming. Pseudocode Programming Process is becoming Prompt Programming Process. Th…

Does anyone actually do this? I have never seen people write pseudo code as part of the programming process. Diagrams, comments, tests, stubs sure, but never really pseudo code.

I do it regularly but it's always invisible if all you see is the resulting code.

I do it to structure my code, but I remove the comments as I implement it because I try to make it obvious in the code what's being done. You know, regular good programming, pick good names, keep the code reasonably short, add comments when needed, etc.

The same way you won't see the detailed outline of a writing once it has been written. Yet, the author likely started with an outline.

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#48

Post by kqr »

I think anything that makes you take a new perspective on (software) product development and reflect on your experiences and pay attention to patterns of outcomes is going to make you a better developer.

Even if the book would be hopelessly outdated, that's usually informative too. It tells you which specific parts of the industry change slowly and which evolve rapidly. That will help you figure out where we are headed and what you can count on will be roughly the same for the next 25 years of your career.

It's very hard to rank books precisely, because how much people get out of them also depends on past experiences.

If you already have the book or can get free access to it -- why not try? Even just the preview on Amazon is usually good to give a sense of what it is like. Read a few chapters and see if it's something you think you want to continue with.

But what's important is not that you pick The Right Book now, it's that you pick up another book when you are finished with this one.

Re: Ask HN: Is "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell still a recommended read?

#49

Post by gjadi »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #35

Heck, I still use stuff I picked up from Writing Solid Code. That book hasn’t aged as well, but it had some parts that are still quite relevant, today. I always thought that Rapid Development was better than Code Complete . I’ve probably read all of McConnell’s stuff (and I’ve taken a lot of Construx courses). At one time, I was quite the fanboi. A lot of folks around here don’t seem to like him, which I find odd.

Well, Rapid Development is the next level after Code Complete :)

Code Complete is the "Introductory Level" and Rapid Development is the "Practitioner Level".

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