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Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

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41–50 of 58 posts

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#41
post #37

> I believe they are over paid for where we live. This is the line I have a bit of trouble with. You shouldn't try to bring others down to feel better about making more, you should see what they're being paid and realize you are worth more. Outline this in asking for compensation adjustment, or begin to look elsewhere. If you can't find a role making more, just try not to let what others make bother you. At the end o…

> You shouldn't try to bring others down to feel better about making more, you should see what they're being paid and realize you are worth more. This. The company is probably generating oodles of profit. Any profit whatsoever represents the labour of employees for which they haven’t been paid. These employees have generated value through their labour that the company has realized, and the company has decided to stea…

You're really espousing the labor theory of value here?

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#42
post #37

> I believe they are over paid for where we live. This is the line I have a bit of trouble with. You shouldn't try to bring others down to feel better about making more, you should see what they're being paid and realize you are worth more. Outline this in asking for compensation adjustment, or begin to look elsewhere. If you can't find a role making more, just try not to let what others make bother you. At the end o…

> You shouldn't try to bring others down to feel better about making more, you should see what they're being paid and realize you are worth more. This. The company is probably generating oodles of profit. Any profit whatsoever represents the labour of employees for which they haven’t been paid. These employees have generated value through their labour that the company has realized, and the company has decided to stea…

The dehumanization in your message really detracts from your argument.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#44
post #14

There is no salary system that is fair. If you want to be compensated relative to value produced you have to own your business.

This is an interesting statement. Why do you think that people that own their own business are compensated fairly and relative to value?

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You shouldn't try to bring others down to feel better about making more, you should see what they're being paid and realize you are worth more. This. The company is probably generating oodles of profit. Any profit whatsoever represents the labour of employees for which they haven’t been paid. These employees have generated value through their labour that the company has realized, and the company has decided to stea…

The dehumanization in your message really detracts from your argument.

I thought it was the usage of a completely discredited economic theory to support their argument, but we can both be right!

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#46

> I believe they are over paid for where we live. This is the line I have a bit of trouble with. You shouldn't try to bring others down to feel better about making more, you should see what they're being paid and realize you are worth more. Outline this in asking for compensation adjustment, or begin to look elsewhere. If you can't find a role making more, just try not to let what others make bother you. At the end o…

But realistically salary budgets are in-fact a zero sum game.

Departments have a budget. If someone else is unfairly getting paid more, it definitely means that you will be getting paid less.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#47

> I believe they are over paid for where we live. This is the line I have a bit of trouble with. You shouldn't try to bring others down to feel better about making more, you should see what they're being paid and realize you are worth more. Outline this in asking for compensation adjustment, or begin to look elsewhere. If you can't find a role making more, just try not to let what others make bother you. At the end o…

It's bad if your coworkers are drastically overpaid because it will bleed the company dry or prevent the company from hiring other coworkers to help lighten the load. In practice, it's not even about the CEO being overpaid or anything like that, it matters what budget out of the total revenue is allocated to your department. If the department/team isn't adding value, they will be walking around with targets on their backs.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#48
As a senior you have other responsibilities as well: train your juniors and then delegate your work. Let them rotate once a week on different tasks. Make them "report" to you what obstacles they are facing and eventually just steer the ship and let them sail it.

If above does not result in any relieve in your work load (eg. new tasks are added to your to do list by your boss, etc) then take the chute.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#49
Your value is worth nothing if you can't apply leverage to extract that value in a negotiation.

The main leverage you have is your future value, not your present value.

The company selects managers who are adept at extracting value from you. The manager's only incentive to pay you fairly now is if they want you in the future. But if you could replace the manager, or if a mentee could replace you, you have negative future value.

Indeed, the manager may have hired you as a low-paid but senior person to demonstrate their negotiating skills to their superiors. Such a manager could find such a senior person by looking for someone with something to overlook, like a recent abrupt departure -- or someone who didn't value their abilities.

You can go pretty far down this rabbit hole of strategic thinking. You could respond by extracting value from your junior members, stealing their ideas or code. Or making them look bad with koan directions or pythian prophecies that turn out to be precient no matter how things turn out.

I hope these suggestions turn your stomach, but I have observed that's what happens when people give up on the idea of "fairness" as other commenters suggest.

Resentment and power differences are but one source of conflict: culture, thinking- and working-styles, external personal and company forces -- all make it hard to relate to others as humans.

Perhaps the best approach is to assume you'll not be treated fairly and there are no alternatives. Your choice then is to suffer or make the best of it, with what you have. Befriend your juniors and your managers, and with every interaction make it as productive and enriching as possible, convincing them that you have their best interests at heart, and that you're taking care of yourself. Embrace the Job's rock tumbler.

i.e., even if you can discipline relations by voice or exit, treat exit as the lazy escape. In so doing, you might find your voice, and the next step will not be a graceful exit but a celebrated entrance.

Re: Ask HN: Would anyone find this system fair?

#50
post #14

There is no salary system that is fair. If you want to be compensated relative to value produced you have to own your business.

This is an interesting statement. Why do you think that people that own their own business are compensated fairly and relative to value?

Because businesses operate within a more free market than employees do.
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