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Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

#41

Post by whenc »

pjc50 wrote: post #33
bradwood wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally. The first _good_ reason for Brexit.

And what's the current UK import duty on camcorders?

Looks like 0% for all items under 8525 under the new Global Tariff (i.e for countries with which the UK trades under WTO terms). It would be 0% for countries with an FTA as well, of course:

https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/headings/8525

The distinction in law between sub-30 and 30+ minutes still exists, inherited from EU law, but the tariff is 0% in both cases:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/classifying-electrical-equipment...

Summary of the changes from the "Common External Tariff" of the EU to the "UK Global Tariff":

"The net effect of the tariff regime according to a summary by the Department for International Trade is as follows:

- 47% of products will be tariff-free, compared to 27% under the CET and

- Average tariffs will be reduced from 7.2% under the CET to 5.7% under the UKGT

This is achieved through changes to rates of tariff by lowering rates, reducing rates to zero or rounding rates down."

Re: Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

#42

Post by bena »

crazygringo wrote: post #23
donatj wrote: post #2

Like most head scratchers, it’s EU taxes. The import taxes are higher on video cameras than still cameras, so they artificially limit the length of videos you can record to avoid being classified as a video camera. > Video camera recorders are subject to import duty of 4.9% or 14%, still image cameras are duty free. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2016-00127... (Update: included better link)

That reminds me of how Converse Chuck Taylors have a small layer of fuzz on the bottom of the sole that wears away after a wearing it for a bit. Seemed totally bizarre, until you learn that it was so they can be classified as "slippers" which had a much smaller import tax than sneakers. It still astonishes me that a legal hack like that works . https://www.gearpatrol.com/style/shoes-boots/a715423/convers...

It's because they're trying to essentially legislate taxonomy, which is nearly impossible.

It's the impetus behind the question "Is a hotdog a sandwich?" What does it mean to be a sandwich? What are the properties of sandwichness? When does something stop being a sandwich?

What's the line between pasta and bread? Bread and cake? Shoe and slipper? The fact that all fruits are vegetables, but not all vegetables are fruits, but it turns out most of them are, in fact, fruits, and half our fruits are actually nuts or some shit.

So to put an exemption on a "slipper", you have to rigidly define what a slipper is. Because "yeah, that's a slipper" doesn't pass muster. Because you and I can disagree on what a slipper is. On where the line between slipper and shoe is. But if we legally define a slipper as any article of clothing designed to be worn on the foot with a felted or cloth sole. Boom, we have something we can agree on. As long as the item meets all of the legal qualifications, it's legally a slipper. And we can fuck subjectivity right out the window.

But of course, where there are rules, there are games. And the goal of the game is to get as much as possible while giving up as little as possible.

Re: Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

#43

Post by randomdata »

jfindley wrote: post #26
randomdata wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may explain why it is exactly 30 minutes, but, despite some counterexamples, that we don't see more product differentiation enabling the consumer to choose between a camera with the limit and an "upgraded" model (i.e. the same camera with the limit disabled) suggests that underlying that the manufacturer recognizes that the consumer would rather buy under-specced hardware that can't handle much more than 30 minu…

Not really. The 30 minute limitation applies on even very high end DSLRs, but in practice this doesn't matter, because this isn't quite how DSLRs are used for video work. In practice, video is done by using the HDMI output of the camera which will spit out continous 4k output without the 30 min limit, and without all the issues of needing to flush this to CFe/SD/XQD cards. You then caputre it on either a laptop or st…

A number of high end (still-centric) cameras are known for overheating problems during recording, even before the 30 minute mark is reached.

Re: Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

#44

Post by hmsp »

Heat buildup cause a lot of noise to appear in the image.

New cameras are overcoming this with fans. Look at the just realeased Sony fx30 or the Panasonic S5ii. Both have built in fans to aid in cooling getting them unlimited record times.

I shoot with a sigma FP that has no recording limit and no fan. It is designed as basically a giant heat sink. It also has some of the lowest amounts of noise of any camera.

I’m sure the eu thing comes into play in hitting that 30 minute mark but it’s probably a convenient choice of time limit when solving the heat buildup issue.

FWIW I’ve followed film cameras closely for years and have never heard of this EU law while all reviews etc talk about heat buildup because it is so detrimental to image quality.

Re: Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

#45

Post by generalizations »

pjc50 wrote: post #32
weberer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At that time, many people in Britain opposed income tax, on principle, because the disclosure of personal income represented an unacceptable governmental intrusion into private matters, and a potential threat to personal liberty. I didn't know the British used to be so cool.

Bricking up your windows to own the Liberals. (You can still see this on old buildings, some were never restored to use as windows)

> to own the Liberals

Sometimes it is actually a matter of principle. Not everything revolves around us-vs-them politics, and it would be a disservice to our understanding of others to paint it as such.

Re: Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

#46

Post by blackshaw »

FoomFries wrote: post #15
donatj wrote: post #2

Like most head scratchers, it’s EU taxes. The import taxes are higher on video cameras than still cameras, so they artificially limit the length of videos you can record to avoid being classified as a video camera. > Video camera recorders are subject to import duty of 4.9% or 14%, still image cameras are duty free. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2016-00127... (Update: included better link)

It’s always interesting to find what businesses will do to lower these. My favorite is Converse sneakers. https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-converse-sneakers-...

Reminds of the time when Britain's finest legal minds were paid exorbitant fees to resolve the extremely important question of whether a particular brand of sugary snack should be considered a "chocolate-covered biscuit" or a "chocolate-covered cake". The taxman must get what's his!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Cakes

Re: Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

#49

Post by michaelt »

randomdata wrote: post #8
donatj wrote: post #2

Like most head scratchers, it’s EU taxes. The import taxes are higher on video cameras than still cameras, so they artificially limit the length of videos you can record to avoid being classified as a video camera. > Video camera recorders are subject to import duty of 4.9% or 14%, still image cameras are duty free. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2016-00127... (Update: included better link)

That may explain why it is exactly 30 minutes, but, despite some counterexamples, that we don't see more product differentiation enabling the consumer to choose between a camera with the limit and an "upgraded" model (i.e. the same camera with the limit disabled) suggests that underlying that the manufacturer recognizes that the consumer would rather buy under-specced hardware that can't handle much more than 30 minu…

In general for things like memory management and thermal management, if a handheld device is going to hit its limits, it'll do so well before the 30 minute mark.

Either your thermal solution can remove the heat of your CPU going at full power, or it can't. And if it can't it'll hit the limits in 5 minutes not 30 minutes, unless it's a huge water-cooling system or something like that.

The main exception here is batteries - but lots of fancy cameras offer things like battery grips for people who want to shoot for hours on end.

Re: Ask HN: Why do cameras stop recording after 30 minutes?

#50

Post by bluGill »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #17
bradwood wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally. The first _good_ reason for Brexit.

Don’t know about that. Brexit only created yet another tax/regulatory domain that companies have to negotiate.

There are so many different ones already that one more doesn't matter very much. If you are a poor country getting rid of them matters, but UK is rich/important enough that plenty of companies will find it worthwhile to navigate and so they don't loose much. Poor countries are a small market and so if it hard to navigate companies will give up as there are not enough rich people there to be worth the effort, and so banding together means your rich are combined with the rich in other poor countries and so it is more likely that you have enough that it is worth navigating the regulations.

Don't get me wrong, Brexit was a bad thing. My reply is strictly about things that are made by large companies outside of Europe. Skip any of those qualifiers and things change.

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