Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

news.ycombinator.com

41–50 of 159 posts

Re: Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

#41

Maybe there is a vector animation tool that is as easy to use as Flash was, but that fact that we rarely see vector animations like we did back in the day makes me think not. I used to work with a group that created training materials using Flash. We had a bunch of animators that knew nothing about coding, but they could produce all of these amazing animated videos using Flash. They could also produce interactive ani…

And my mate Tim, a designer not a coder, could bang up really neat stuff really easily. Now you need to be Bartosz Ciechanowski and only he is.

Re: Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

#42

ActionScript was a terrible language. More complex flash projects were really a hacked together mishmash of things, none of it standard, none of it supported without plugins, and oh, have we all forgotten about the weekly zero-days that flash had? It might have been more "creative" but that was also due to the fact that it was around at the beginning of the web, when everything was more creative. People had not figur…

When I was 12, me and my brother made simple flash games. You could produce something with cool animation, basically functional, in a week or two. What is the modern replacement for my nephews now? There might be one but I haven't seen it.

Scratch maybe or GameSalad?

Re: Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

#43

ActionScript was a terrible language. More complex flash projects were really a hacked together mishmash of things, none of it standard, none of it supported without plugins, and oh, have we all forgotten about the weekly zero-days that flash had? It might have been more "creative" but that was also due to the fact that it was around at the beginning of the web, when everything was more creative. People had not figur…

When I was 12, me and my brother made simple flash games. You could produce something with cool animation, basically functional, in a week or two. What is the modern replacement for my nephews now? There might be one but I haven't seen it.

I would guess Scratch as that is what schools use, even from 6 years old.

Re: Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

#44
AS3 was very powerful in terms of prototyping games and sound design. A long time ago I worked on lots of "music games" that combined game mechanics (like top down space shooters or "flappy bird" style stuff) with synthesizer code that made music.

I have no idea how to go about recreating my projects today in JS at all...

Re: Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

#45

Nowadays with WASM and WebGL you can do basically everything in a web browser, but you'll take a 100x performance hit. Every game using Unity/Unreal + WASM needs to download 10-20 MB of JavaScript before it even starts loading the actual assets. With Flash, that could have been a 10 KB SWF instead. Similarly, Flash had really fluid animations that were drawn purely on the CPU. Why my 266 MHz P2 could have better vect…

A Unity wasm empty scene is ≈1MB:

https://blog-api.unity.com/sites/default/files/styles/focal_...

couldn't find a live demo to confirm, which strongly speaks against Unity being anywhere as flashy.

Re: Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

#46

Maybe there is a vector animation tool that is as easy to use as Flash was, but that fact that we rarely see vector animations like we did back in the day makes me think not. I used to work with a group that created training materials using Flash. We had a bunch of animators that knew nothing about coding, but they could produce all of these amazing animated videos using Flash. They could also produce interactive ani…

Related to this, but building anything interactive in general was made super-easy by Flash because it was basically one IDE with everything you needed included out of the box. No complex toolchain, or ludicrous dependency tree, no nonsense build and deployment (though the fact that the default for Flash content was one giant binary blob wasn't always ideal when bandwidth was at a premium), no having to learn a new framework and toolchain every 12 - 24 months. And, frankly, were the security holes any worse than plenty of other apps at the time, or the constant parade of issues we see with our current dependencies that require ongoing vigilance and updates?

The big problem is it was proprietary and the cost of entry was high at a time when I was short of cash for quite a few years.

Still, I wish I'd invested in learning it back in the day, as I really only came to appreciate its benefits after its fate was effectively sealed by Steve Jobs: could have made some good money whilst having some good fun doing it for 8 or 10 years up to around 2010.

(Of course, I would have had to deal with the consequence of my skillset being obsoleted seemingly overnight, but I got kind of a taste of that from the Microsoft ecosystem as well: it's WinForms, no, it's WPF, no it's Silverlight, no, etc...)

Re: Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

#48
People's use of the internet has changed, but the fact that there is not a new Homestar Runner or NewGrounds is telling. How much does a weird high school/college art nerd need to know about the tech stack to get their vision online?

I'm old enough that HSR is still part of my lexicon. Kids just think I'm weird, which is fine.

Re: Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

#49

HTML+JS is "turing complete" so in a sense you can make everything in HTML that you could make in Flash. In practice, I think the authoring experience has been lost. There is still Adobe Animate (which is the renamed Flash application), but I think you can not export to a fully interactive HTML application - only to static videos or simple HTML (like interactive ads). Maybe it is now possible, but I haven't seen much…

When I was reading about Turing Completeness as a child, I remarked to my mother that "Computers can do anything". She quickly told me that wasn't right. I went back and thought about what I actually meant. My revised statement was "Computers can do anything that computers can do", which sounds significantly less grand.

Re: Ask HN: Are there things that Flash did that we still can’t do with today’s web?

#50
post #28

HTML+JS is "turing complete" so in a sense you can make everything in HTML that you could make in Flash. In practice, I think the authoring experience has been lost. There is still Adobe Animate (which is the renamed Flash application), but I think you can not export to a fully interactive HTML application - only to static videos or simple HTML (like interactive ads). Maybe it is now possible, but I haven't seen much…

> HTML+JS is "turing complete" so in a sense you can make everything in HTML that you could make in Flash. I love how turing complete gets thrown around every time. Can a turing machine by itself run a voice chat, print documents, display images, stream videos? If I emulated a turing machine on a 1 Hz CPU would it be capable of decoding a 4k video stream in acceptable time?

Jeez, I knew people would comment on this. I put it in quotes because I don't mean turing complete it in the technical sense, but as an analogy. It is "fully functional", you can achive basically any result that you can with Flash. Analogous to the fact that a Turing complete system can simulate any Turing machine, I mean a certain interactive graphical programming environment - like HTML5+js for example - can remake any Flash game.

But that "Turing completeness" or "result achiveability" is not at all the interesing point.

The point is that despite this "completeness" or "equivalency" there is a difference. You could write a line of business application in plain C or say even FORTH, but it is probably easier and makes more sense in C# or Java. And you can create great games and animations in HTML+JS, but something was lost in the experience, and in the tooling, that was available with Flash.

Post reply on HN