And while we are at it - how do we fight unjust NOT-bans, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33727981 ?
Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
41–50 of 55 posts
Re: Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
> GP's comment is useful. It is putting the finger in the wound. This might be useful in regards to learning from this mistake in the future, but is absolutely useless as far as actionable advice "now" goes. Consider a made up example, in which I go trekking without proper boots and end up spraining an ankle. Then the comment becomes essentially: Take a moment to appreciate how bad the idea of not wearing proper boot…
> (none of these are perfect, but they're in most cases better than doing nothing) While they are helpful for avoiding deeper damage, I would summarize them with "Playing with fire without getting burned (probably)", while none of them do what is actually needed in order to fix the situation permanently: "Stop feeding the beast"
> none of them do what is actually needed in order to fix the situation permanently: "Stop feeding the beast"
You are free to use third party app stores... and have basically no income because very few people use them.
You are free to use more open video sharing platforms and social networks... and have your content not be as discoverable, because once again, very few people use them.
You are free to use third party payment processors... and run into issues with integrating them or what locations they support.
As an individual, the network effects are too large and any attempts to fix the situation might need to start with legislation. As it currently stands, you are simply putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to others who go the "easy route", which may or may not be worth for you in the name of integrity.
Personally, when I want to put a video online or something, I don't say: "Okay, let's fix the world's issues and start with political advocacy." I also don't say: "Okay, let's review all of the video platforms and then spend the majority of my time trying to get more people on the platform of my choice." (some do, with varying degrees of success) I just put the video on YouTube.
Well, to be honest, I also have backups on a self-hosted instance of PeerTube and de-cloud myself as much as possible (e.g. self-hosted Nextcloud) and have all of my VPSes run FOSS in them and be easily replaceable (thanks to local backups), instead of allowing too much vendor lock to happen.. but that's besides the point, when you think about content that others consume in particular, network effect reigns supreme: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect
Re: Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
#43Private businesses are under no obligation to do business with you. We live in a capitalist society where you are free to choose one of their many competitors. If, however, you find yourself excluded from a monopoly provider, there are a few strategies you can use. Argue with them. You might get lucky and find a customer support agent who is sympathetic (or apathetic). GDPR them. Send a Subject Access Request and ask…
I know what you're saying but a utility company can't just cut off power or water to a home, just for no specific reason at all. Personally, I think a lot of these platforms, at this point, are utilities. Without them, a person can't really interact with the larger world. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but that is just how I feel about it.
I think a bit the same as you, an email account is a bit like an utility. But i don't think it will ever happen, a right to an email account, a right to have paypal, a right to have an youtube account.
I think just the EU has a right to have a basic banc account.
Re: Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
#44I wish I knew. For some reason, I'm only allowed to post 5 comments per account per $RELATIVELY_LONG_PERIOD_OF_TIME on this very website. I also, for some reason, end up with a lot of downvotes on what look to me like reasonable comments that actually attract a good amount of upvotes initially.
Love me, hate me, or anything in between, but I don't think I violate the guidelines any more than those people who are still in the site's good graces. Since I have no idea exactly _why_ I'm so severely rate limited here, I have no idea how to get out of the dog house, either. Emails have gone unanswered, so I can only assume nobody really cares about my problem.
Re: Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
#45You know you are asking on a platform that is censoring and banning comments / users?
Re: Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
#46Due to the fact I have VERY LITTLE practicals ways to protect myself I do my best to avoid and suggest anybody to avoid depending on such platforms. When I can't and something happen I go straight with a formal complaint to the local legal dep address electing domicile for the reply to my local lawyer coupled with a ferocious but formally never insulting nor illegal campaign to publicize what happen on all media I can access.
Those who live like mobsters against others like them fear those who know how to use the society against them, not easy nor cheap in all cases, but mostly works well.
Essentially I treat them for what they are, in a calm and merciless manner. Beside that your personal option is ZERO. At a social level the option is MANDATE BY LAWs certain practices to sanctions mobsters and bully enough they decide change their attitude. Actually however most people do the very opposite, acting a soldiers fighting for their enemy demanding even more platformisation and corporatocracy... Witch means avoid the need to fight as much as possible is the sole protection for now.
Re: Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
#47The tricks are mostly proactive / strategic rather than reactive. • Don't rely on platforms you have no control over in the first place. PayPal can close your PayPal account, but nobody can close your self-custody Bitcoin wallet. Self-ownership comes with some risks, but it negates some others. The solution is to use both (and others), which brings us to our next point - • If you must use some platforms you have no c…
Your first two points are great.
However your third point advocates lying, which many great moral/religious thinkers have explicitly warned against, and for good reason (it rots the soul).
Re: Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
#48Private businesses are under no obligation to do business with you. We live in a capitalist society where you are free to choose one of their many competitors. If, however, you find yourself excluded from a monopoly provider, there are a few strategies you can use. Argue with them. You might get lucky and find a customer support agent who is sympathetic (or apathetic). GDPR them. Send a Subject Access Request and ask…
The big platforms are being heavily leaned on by the US government to ban and censor users of those platforms. It's not a clear cut case of 'private businesses are under no obligation to do business with you'. And the US government prefers this way of suppressing free speech, as it gets them around the first amendment (i.e. they are not directly banning and censoring themselves, but indirectly through the platforms).
Re: Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
#49You can't. They have no financial reason to give a shit about you. If screwing you over is more profitable than not, or looks like it probably will be, they will screw you over.
if you have a problem with this: simply be born into wealth, then you might be able to do something about this.
Re: Ask HN: How do you fight unjust bans from online platforms?
#50You simply don't. As many have already said, there's little chance of success and it's largely a waste of time.
A better question would be how to reduce your risk of getting there in the first place? Some examples below.
1) The best thing to do is to avoid such platforms altogether. I know it sounds difficult, but think of it:
* post on your own blog, rather than twitter, dev.to, hashnode etc
* own a domain name - if your provider bans you, you can find another one; if gmail bans you, good luck appealing that
* back up your data regularly and store it on external device
2) Don't put all your eggs in the same basket:
* list your property on airbnb, booking etc
* use multiple cloud storage providers to store copies of the same (ideally encrypted) data * use a variety of ad networks combined with affiliate marketing and directly sponsored ads
* use multiple email addresses for various things (trivial stuff, personal, programming, business, freelance etc)
3) Think risk management and always seek to understand the implications of getting banned on a particular platform as well as the steps you can take to avoid that and, if it does happen, to mitigate the impact.