41–50 of 322 posts
It's hard to overstate how bloated Apple was internally. Marketing had products for every conceivable niche. Engineering was all posturing: great hand-waving plans papered over nasty middle-management infighting. Hundreds of engineers in new glass-walled offices, producing plans. I wrote test code against a component that had been delivered months earlier only to find that it was just a stub. Even the debugger had bu…
You guys were creating Java? > ~1,000 classes in 1.1, ~10K in 1.2 the next year. 9K classes in a year sounds crazy as hell
9k classes * 100-300 == 900k-2.7m LOC
Not TOO crazy for the most complete standard library ever developed, for a language meant from the beginning to take over enterprise business computing.
How many LOC are in whatever meme language is hype this year? Hell, I feel like I see nearly that many lines of console output, when I run NPM to pull in dependencies, lol.
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You guys were creating Java? > ~1,000 classes in 1.1, ~10K in 1.2 the next year. 9K classes in a year sounds crazy as hell
Sounds about right for Java..
And it's not like other ecosystems do better. The standard complaint about JS is that you try to do something basic in that ecosystem and discover you have 10,000 modules in node_modules. Not so different, really, except that the Java stuff comes from a single team with a relatively coherent design philosophy.
It's hard to overstate how bloated Apple was internally. Marketing had products for every conceivable niche. Engineering was all posturing: great hand-waving plans papered over nasty middle-management infighting. Hundreds of engineers in new glass-walled offices, producing plans. I wrote test code against a component that had been delivered months earlier only to find that it was just a stub. Even the debugger had bu…
Your description of 1997 Apple sounds uncomfortably close to modern Google. I miss working for startups.
It would be crazy if someone just shook up the whole company top to bottom, but google is still making money and apple wasn’t
So I think it will never happen
It's hard to overstate how bloated Apple was internally. Marketing had products for every conceivable niche. Engineering was all posturing: great hand-waving plans papered over nasty middle-management infighting. Hundreds of engineers in new glass-walled offices, producing plans. I wrote test code against a component that had been delivered months earlier only to find that it was just a stub. Even the debugger had bu…
What do you look at in engineering culture?
- The ability and willingness of the management to invest time and resources into development of proper work processes and infrustructure (imagine having to code without version control in a team)
- Understanding that things aren't always done the moment they appear to be done
- Realization that many things are done to lower the cognitive load exclusively (why do we have to spend 20 hours refactoring the thing if it already works?)
- Understanding why it is important to lower the cognitive load
- And dozens more
These are merely signs, though. One can put 'dnd' signs on doors, but what difference does that make if the same people who introduce the signs still disturb the people behind the doors whenever they feel like it. (no pun intended, couldn't word it better)
It comes down to understanding the nuances, and mutual respect, I think?
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Sounds about right for Java..
How many classes do you think it should have, ballpark, given the same feature set? GUI toolkits alone can produce thousands of classes because there are thousands of concepts that make sense to model, then add on security, collections, many utilities, XML handling, multiple RPC systems and so on. It's hard to over-state how large the Java standard library is. And it's not like other ecosystems do better. The standar…
but in Java everything is a class, main function? in a class. a library of static functions? in a class.
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Your description of 1997 Apple sounds uncomfortably close to modern Google. I miss working for startups.
That was also echoing through my brain while reading through the comment (worked there awhile ago) It would be crazy if someone just shook up the whole company top to bottom, but google is still making money and apple wasn’t So I think it will never happen
It's hard to overstate how bloated Apple was internally. Marketing had products for every conceivable niche. Engineering was all posturing: great hand-waving plans papered over nasty middle-management infighting. Hundreds of engineers in new glass-walled offices, producing plans. I wrote test code against a component that had been delivered months earlier only to find that it was just a stub. Even the debugger had bu…
Your description of 1997 Apple sounds uncomfortably close to modern Google. I miss working for startups.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your description of 1997 Apple sounds uncomfortably close to modern Google. I miss working for startups.
That was also echoing through my brain while reading through the comment (worked there awhile ago) It would be crazy if someone just shook up the whole company top to bottom, but google is still making money and apple wasn’t So I think it will never happen
> it will never happen
I can see it happening. They have just one cash cow in advertising, and it's not terribly secure. TikTok is already a serious threat to YouTube. If this became a crisis, it wouldn't sink the company, but it'd certainly shake it up.